Let me say up front that I don’t play third edition, and have no intention of doing so.
Instead, I am working on a document with all the 250 careers of second edition, with some extra attributes, and I ran into problems when trying to streamline the entries and exits for those careers (see thread viewtopic.php?t=768)
In that thread, Karkared suggested that I have a look at the career tag system of third edition. He explained the basics, and in the ensuing discussion I began to understand that the system has some subtleties that I would easily miss in a short explanation.
So I would appreciate it if you could point out the subtleties and possibilities of the tag system to me, and perhaps some ideas of how you would customize the system, if you had the chance.
My intention with this thread is to learn and to get ideas of how to implement a variation of the system for second edition. If you want to help me with that, I’d appreciate it.
Teach me about the career tags system
I may not be the best person to answer to this, as I don't really play WFRP3, but I still want to 
Even Karanthir did have pretty comprehensive answer already...
So, your thinking how you could use WFRP3 career "tagging" (WFRP3 calls it Traits) which you mean four categories that each and every career has on WFRP3 to replace WFRP2 entries and exits?
That is actually something I was thinking long time ago when I was still playing WFRP2. My idea was maybe three tags/traits. One would be tier/level, other general category (Warrior, Ranger...) of the career, and then one more specific category (wilderness, water, urban...).
The main good reason to use that type of system is the freedom to create new careers easily. You don't need to update all the careers connected to that new career. Just choose right tags. Idea is, that transition from career to another costs lesser if they are more compatible (same tags).
One problem is that you want to keep the tier system also. So, If non-Wizard wants to become Wizard that person needs to start from the beginning, meaning apprentice Wizard and move forward step by step, or Basic Soldier can't just jump to become Champion. Advanced WFRP3 cards had "Special" text on them, that gives like requirements for advanced careers. Well, this not difficult task. Advanced careers could have that requirement, that could be the tier/level and/or previous career that NEEDS to be taken before.
(bytheway - I don't know was Zweihänder RPG mentioned before, but it has kind of same system also. Requirement was certain level on certain skills)
Even Karanthir did have pretty comprehensive answer already...So, your thinking how you could use WFRP3 career "tagging" (WFRP3 calls it Traits) which you mean four categories that each and every career has on WFRP3 to replace WFRP2 entries and exits?
That is actually something I was thinking long time ago when I was still playing WFRP2. My idea was maybe three tags/traits. One would be tier/level, other general category (Warrior, Ranger...) of the career, and then one more specific category (wilderness, water, urban...).
The main good reason to use that type of system is the freedom to create new careers easily. You don't need to update all the careers connected to that new career. Just choose right tags. Idea is, that transition from career to another costs lesser if they are more compatible (same tags).
One problem is that you want to keep the tier system also. So, If non-Wizard wants to become Wizard that person needs to start from the beginning, meaning apprentice Wizard and move forward step by step, or Basic Soldier can't just jump to become Champion. Advanced WFRP3 cards had "Special" text on them, that gives like requirements for advanced careers. Well, this not difficult task. Advanced careers could have that requirement, that could be the tier/level and/or previous career that NEEDS to be taken before.
(bytheway - I don't know was Zweihänder RPG mentioned before, but it has kind of same system also. Requirement was certain level on certain skills)
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Exactly. If you would map all the career entries and exits in WFRP2 now, it would be quite a mess. In the Compendium, there are a few instances where career A has an exit to career B, but that career A is not listed in career B's entries. And all the careers in supplements can never refer to careers in other supplements, only to those in the base book. Add to that all the fan careers ...Jackdays wrote: ↑Thu Jun 26, 2025 6:25 amThat is actually something I was thinking long time ago when I was still playing WFRP2. My idea was maybe three tags/traits. One would be tier/level, other general category (Warrior, Ranger...) of the career, and then one more specific category (wilderness, water, urban...).
The main good reason to use that type of system is the freedom to create new careers easily. You don't need to update all the careers connected to that new career. Just choose right tags. Idea is, that transition from career to another costs lesser if they are more compatible (same tags).
I'm not sure about WFRP3's idea that everyone should be able to enter every career; I'll likely try to restrict that. As I said in the other thread, a prospector who has lived all his life in the World's Edge Mountains should not be able to suddenly become a sea captain.
And that. One simple rule could be that you can only get into an 'advanced' career if you have completed an 'intermediate' one, and only go to an 'intermediate' career after having completed a 'basic' one.Jackdays wrote: ↑Thu Jun 26, 2025 6:25 amOne problem is that you want to keep the tier system also. So, If non-Wizard wants to become Wizard that person needs to start from the beginning, meaning apprentice Wizard and move forward step by step, or Basic Soldier can't just jump to become Champion. Advanced WFRP3 cards had "Special" text on them, that gives like requirements for advanced careers. Well, this not difficult task. Advanced careers could have that requirement, that could be the tier/level and/or previous career that NEEDS to be taken before.
For specific, restricted, career paths like the wizards, priests, slayers, and so on, I'm thinking of having keywords like 'Priest 1', 'Priest 2', and so on. They all count as a 'priest' keyword, but you can only get to a career with 'Priest 3' if you have the specific 'Priest 2' keyword.
One change I would like to see in the Career Tag system is "typed tags". For example, the priest career would have the Religion<<any>> tag. If a PC becomes a Priest of Morr, it would be filled in with Religion<<Morr>> this would help facilitate a move into Knight of the Raven or Temple Guard (of a Morrian Temple) but would probably require a step back to Acolyte if his service shifted from Morr to another deity.
Similarly we could say that that the Captain career has the Military<<Empire>> or Military <<Mercenary(Band of the Red Hand)>> tag to help show their authority of command over a certain group, but that their authority may not be recognized by other groups, for instance Ironbreakers with Military<<Karak Norn>>.
Your idea about Priest1/Priest2/etc seems to be a very good one.
Hy
Similarly we could say that that the Captain career has the Military<<Empire>> or Military <<Mercenary(Band of the Red Hand)>> tag to help show their authority of command over a certain group, but that their authority may not be recognized by other groups, for instance Ironbreakers with Military<<Karak Norn>>.
Anything I can do to help, please let me know.My intention with this thread is to learn and to get ideas of how to implement a variation of the system for second edition. If you want to help me with that, I’d appreciate it.
Your idea about Priest1/Priest2/etc seems to be a very good one.
Hy
I hold the glaive of Law against the Earth.
Hmm ... in first and second edition, you could go from initiate to priest, or from soldier to sergeant, and while in theory you could go from one organisation to another one when making that career switch, in practice it would be clear that this career progression was in the same organisation. I don't see what is so different in third edition that this specification is necessary there.Hyarion wrote: ↑Sat Jun 28, 2025 8:59 am One change I would like to see in the Career Tag system is "typed tags". For example, the priest career would have the Religion<<any>> tag. If a PC becomes a Priest of Morr, it would be filled in with Religion<<Morr>> this would help facilitate a move into Knight of the Raven or Temple Guard (of a Morrian Temple) but would probably require a step back to Acolyte if his service shifted from Morr to another deity.
Similarly we could say that that the Captain career has the Military<<Empire>> or Military <<Mercenary(Band of the Red Hand)>> tag to help show their authority of command over a certain group, but that their authority may not be recognized by other groups, for instance Ironbreakers with Military<<Karak Norn>>.
That said, I would want these 'typed tags' for religion, but for another reason. I would like to give keywords to the different dieties and religions - Rhya would have 'rural', Manaan would have 'waterline'. A religious career would have the keyword 'religion', and that keyword could be replaced with the keyword for the specific diety. That way, a sailor could easily become an initiate of Manann, but not as much one of Rhya.
(which would bring up the topic which deities would get which keywords, but that's a can of worms to open in a later stage)
With 'help' I mainly meant discussing the system and its applicability for WFRP2, sharing insights, and so on. You're already doing a remarkable job of it
What I noticed with the tag system (going from the fanmade summary of WFRP3 careers that I found somewhere on the internet):
* Some things are strange. Like the career 'wizard' not having the keyword 'wizard'. Or keywords that are only used for one career; 'watcher', 'sword master', 'ritual dancer'. Perhaps there are some extra rules dedicated to them which are not mentioned in that document.
* Some keywords are coupled to others; every slayer has 'slayer' and 'combat'. Every career that has 'devoted' has 'fanatic' as well. The only reason I can think of for doing this is to make going from one career to the next one easier, since for that specific path you already have two keywords that are similar.
* It looks like the obligation to have four keywords is sometimes a hindrance. Some careers could do with more (like that wizard who doesn't have 'wizard'), sometimes extra keywords needed to be added to come up to the right total.
With the WFRP3 system it is unavoidable, I guess, since every career needs exactly four keywords for the system to work.
What I want to do - at least, where I'm now with my thoughts:
* I would like to have a mix of second and third edition career progress rules. That is, each career has career entries, but those entries consist of keywords, not of specific careers. Anyone with the keyword 'military' can become a veteran, for instance. But a rat catcher can't.
* Entering a new career costs 100 XP. No discount for having more matching keywords. That also means that I don't need those paired keywords.
* You can only enter an intermediate career if you have the keyword 'basic', you can only enter an advanced career with the keyword 'intermediate', and so on. It makes no sense if your lowly pedlar can suddenly become a vampire hunter or noble lord (I guess that there are some career-specific rules which are not in the document that prevent such a jump, but I prefer generic rules to specific ones).
* There are some specific career paths; for slayers you begin as troll slayer, then giant slayer and finally daemon slayer. Similar restricted paths are there for priests, wizards and the military. For those I want a keyword like 'slayer' (or 'wizard', 'priest' and 'officer') with a number. Troll slayer would have 'slayer 1', giant slayer 'slayer 2' and daemon slayer 'slayer 3'. Each of those keywords counts as a generic 'slayer' keyword, but you can only go from the first of those careers up in the line. With these numbers, the career path is defined.
There would be at least three types of keywords, with a career having at least one of each type:
* Keywords indicating level: basic, intermediate, advanced, and so on
* Keywords indicating background: urban, rural, wilderness, underground, ...
* Keywords indicating kind of job: bureaucrat, menial, combat, ...
And for some path-specific career progressions you get keywords indicating that path. Slayer(1 to 3), priest, wizard, officer ...
* Some things are strange. Like the career 'wizard' not having the keyword 'wizard'. Or keywords that are only used for one career; 'watcher', 'sword master', 'ritual dancer'. Perhaps there are some extra rules dedicated to them which are not mentioned in that document.
* Some keywords are coupled to others; every slayer has 'slayer' and 'combat'. Every career that has 'devoted' has 'fanatic' as well. The only reason I can think of for doing this is to make going from one career to the next one easier, since for that specific path you already have two keywords that are similar.
* It looks like the obligation to have four keywords is sometimes a hindrance. Some careers could do with more (like that wizard who doesn't have 'wizard'), sometimes extra keywords needed to be added to come up to the right total.
With the WFRP3 system it is unavoidable, I guess, since every career needs exactly four keywords for the system to work.
What I want to do - at least, where I'm now with my thoughts:
* I would like to have a mix of second and third edition career progress rules. That is, each career has career entries, but those entries consist of keywords, not of specific careers. Anyone with the keyword 'military' can become a veteran, for instance. But a rat catcher can't.
* Entering a new career costs 100 XP. No discount for having more matching keywords. That also means that I don't need those paired keywords.
* You can only enter an intermediate career if you have the keyword 'basic', you can only enter an advanced career with the keyword 'intermediate', and so on. It makes no sense if your lowly pedlar can suddenly become a vampire hunter or noble lord (I guess that there are some career-specific rules which are not in the document that prevent such a jump, but I prefer generic rules to specific ones).
* There are some specific career paths; for slayers you begin as troll slayer, then giant slayer and finally daemon slayer. Similar restricted paths are there for priests, wizards and the military. For those I want a keyword like 'slayer' (or 'wizard', 'priest' and 'officer') with a number. Troll slayer would have 'slayer 1', giant slayer 'slayer 2' and daemon slayer 'slayer 3'. Each of those keywords counts as a generic 'slayer' keyword, but you can only go from the first of those careers up in the line. With these numbers, the career path is defined.
There would be at least three types of keywords, with a career having at least one of each type:
* Keywords indicating level: basic, intermediate, advanced, and so on
* Keywords indicating background: urban, rural, wilderness, underground, ...
* Keywords indicating kind of job: bureaucrat, menial, combat, ...
And for some path-specific career progressions you get keywords indicating that path. Slayer(1 to 3), priest, wizard, officer ...
4e's careers are broken down into 8 'families' : Academics, Burghers, Courtiers, Peasants, Rangers, Riverfolk, Rogues, Warriors.
Renamed and re-sorted a bit we could have:
Mercantile
Peasants
Wilderness/Frontier
Maritime
Criminal
Martial
Religious
Government
Not that those should be exclusive, but that might serve as a good basis for a tier of tags.
Renamed and re-sorted a bit we could have:
Mercantile
Peasants
Wilderness/Frontier
Maritime
Criminal
Martial
Religious
Government
Not that those should be exclusive, but that might serve as a good basis for a tier of tags.
I hold the glaive of Law against the Earth.
Careers by class were already there in WFRP1, where you had separate career tables for warriors, rogues, academics and rangers. Second edition did away with that, but back then, I came up with character backgrounds in Liber Fanatica I. And that got picked up in the career compendium; there you have starting careers by role (academic, commoner, criminal, ranger and warrior), by region (Empire, North, South, East, West), or environment (Urban, Rural, Coast and Wilds).
WFRP3 had it represented in the keyword system, and WFRP4 with its families.
I am now working with ten backgrounds, with starting career tables;
Bourgeois
Rogue
Mercantile
Military
Mystic
Rural
Urban
Wanderer
Waterline
Wilderness
These came partly from LF1, partly from where I identified enough basic careers with a common theme.
I guess that Bourgeois comes close to WFRP4's Government. I see it as the people with money and power; the nobility and well-off citizens
Mystic overlaps with religious, but also includes careers like Seer and Strigany Mystic.
Wanderer was a new background, since there are quite a lot of careers, from pedlar to camp follower, for people who roam from town to town.
Each of these backgrounds should provide a keyword for the careers associated with it. Which also means that careers that appear in several backgrounds get more than one background keyword; Marine, for example, is both military and waterline.
Another keyword will be 'underground', for careers like miner, deepwatcher, and runebearer. There were not enough careers to create a separate background, but I think that there should be enough to make a keyword for them - although I must check if there are any non-basic careers where this keyword would apply.
WFRP3 had it represented in the keyword system, and WFRP4 with its families.
I am now working with ten backgrounds, with starting career tables;
Bourgeois
Rogue
Mercantile
Military
Mystic
Rural
Urban
Wanderer
Waterline
Wilderness
These came partly from LF1, partly from where I identified enough basic careers with a common theme.
I guess that Bourgeois comes close to WFRP4's Government. I see it as the people with money and power; the nobility and well-off citizens
Mystic overlaps with religious, but also includes careers like Seer and Strigany Mystic.
Wanderer was a new background, since there are quite a lot of careers, from pedlar to camp follower, for people who roam from town to town.
Each of these backgrounds should provide a keyword for the careers associated with it. Which also means that careers that appear in several backgrounds get more than one background keyword; Marine, for example, is both military and waterline.
Another keyword will be 'underground', for careers like miner, deepwatcher, and runebearer. There were not enough careers to create a separate background, but I think that there should be enough to make a keyword for them - although I must check if there are any non-basic careers where this keyword would apply.