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Surprised opponents take less damage
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:24 am
by cavemanjimmy
The rules state that a surprised opponent cannot defend themselves in opposed Tests. If there is no opposed roll, this means the Success Level (difference between the success levels) will be potentially much lower than it would be if they defended themselves and rolled poorly. Can anyone explain this?
Re: Surprised opponents take less damage
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:06 am
by DiePingu
Yeah we have noticed this in my group, but not sure how to handle it yet
Re: Surprised opponents take less damage
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:27 pm
by Robin
You could either:
1) Still make the opposed roll, but any success on the part of the surprised character is treated as a fail, albeit with zero success levels for the attacker.
2) Make it Very Easy (+60%) for the attacker, perhaps?
Regards,
Robin
Re: Surprised opponents take less damage
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:53 pm
by Hyarion
Here's how my group has handled that problem:
Since the surprised character cannot defend themselves, the attacking player still rolls but gets a minimum of +0 SL. I like Robin's solution a bit better, as it allows for the defender's suprised reaction to be a negative hindrance.
Re: Surprised opponents take less damage
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:12 pm
by Orin J.
The rules for attacking someone unable to defend themselves are (for whatever reason) described in the rules for the Unconcious Condition, which details that the attack automatically hits the location of the attacker's choice At the maximum SLs possible to score. Melee attacks are opposed rolls so to score the maximum SLs possible would require both the attacker to roll their best and the defender to roll their worst rather than simply maxing out your attack roll. RAW, i'm confident that means you calculate based on your best roll and their worst roll possible. You also inflict a critical wound. (or the victim straight dies, if the GM wishes.)
this said, i like robin's rules MUCH better anyways. maybe use them instead.
Also remember that you gain advantage for attacking a surprised target, under gaining advantage on page 164.
Re: Surprised opponents take less damage
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2022 2:11 am
by DiePingu
Orin J. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:12 pm
The rules for attacking someone unable to defend themselves are (for whatever reason) described in the rules for the Unconcious Condition, which details that the attack automatically hits the location of the attacker's choice
At the maximum SLs possible to score. Melee attacks are opposed rolls so to score the maximum SLs possible would require both the attacker to roll their best
and the defender to roll their worst rather than simply maxing out your attack roll. RAW, i'm confident that means you calculate based on your best roll and their worst roll possible. You also inflict a critical wound. (or the victim straight dies, if the GM wishes.)
this said, i like robin's rules MUCH better anyways. maybe use them instead.
Also remember that you gain advantage for attacking a surprised target, under gaining advantage on page 164.
Okay totally never noticed that in the rules. Makes sense for someone who is unconscious and completely unable to defend themselves, think Robin's suggestion (with the usual other modifiers like Advantage) is much better for 'ordinary' surprise
Re: Surprised opponents take less damage
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:23 pm
by Robin
Glad folks are liking the suggestions. Might want to do some play testing for optimisation it, though.
You could make it really unpleasant if the attacker got the Very Easy +60% and the surprised defender got the Very Hard -30% to their rolls.
Ideally, you'd keep it as simple as possible, but specific circumstances might make it tempting to vary these bonuses/penalties.
Regards,
Robin
Re: Surprised opponents take less damage
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:18 am
by macd21
Yes I’m theory you could inflict more damage if the defender rolled poorly, but as it is you get +30 to hit (+20 for surprise, +10 for advantage), which effectively means +3 damage. Assuming you hit you’ll be starting the next round with 2 advantage, and your opponent misses their turn, so all together it’s quite powerful.
And of course while letting a weak opponent roll to defend would potentially increase damage, it would probably result in strong opponents taking less. The surprised condition is a great way for inflicting damage on stronger opponents. It doesn’t matter how good (or bad) your target is, all that matters is your own ability.