2nd -> 4th ed. preparation.

Cubicle 7 // 2018
Post Reply
Stanley2077
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:27 pm

Hello :-)

I just bought the 4th edition core rulebook and got some questions.
For the last years I have be GM’ing for a group of players using 2nd edition. They how just entered there 3rd careers At the moment I am reading the new rules and trying out some test-encounters, converting 2nd to 4th editions characters/scenarios.

1: Species skills/talents: Advance 6 skills with 3/5 advances. What happens to the other skills? Meant to be bought later on using XP?

2: Simple/dramatic test: What is baseline +20 (average) or +0 (challenging) for a standard test. Seems strange to me that +0 is challenging and not average.

3: Passive perception gets mentioned in the core rulebook but there is no specific rules about it?

4: Defense rule: to get +20 on defensive tests at the expense of ones action. Lets say the PC is acting later in the round. A skaven clanrat charges. Can the PC declare that he uses +20 defense already now losing his upcoming action but getting +20 on all opposed tests?

5: Fortune points: can a PC only use one FP per test once?
If that fails the only option is a “dark deal” and get a point of corruption/use a point of resilience for 100% success chance?

6: Talents: petty magic/arcane lore: Reading the new updated rules (errata …up to Int).
Can someone explain how the xp cost is calculated in relation to “No. of Petty spells currently known”?
The examples in the book make no sense to me.

7: Magic: Channeling: So casting some of the bigger spells (CN5+ ish) the player has to use multiple rounds just standing there doing the extended channeling test?
In 2nd edition even the bigger spells could be cast in one round if you had the magic points for it/ingredients boost etc. Not sure our wizard player is gonna find that very fun during encounters.

8: XP: Is there a table or something showing the required XP needed to advances to tier 2,3 and 4?
I guess it’s the same amount needed across all careers.
mormegil
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:48 am

Stanley2077 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:28 am
Hello :-)

I just bought the 4th edition core rulebook and got some questions.
For the last years I have be GM’ing for a group of players using 2nd edition. They how just entered there 3rd careers At the moment I am reading the new rules and trying out some test-encounters, converting 2nd to 4th editions characters/scenarios.

1: Species skills/talents: Advance 6 skills with 3/5 advances. What happens to the other skills? Meant to be bought later on using XP?

2: Simple/dramatic test: What is baseline +20 (average) or +0 (challenging) for a standard test. Seems strange to me that +0 is challenging and not average.

3: Passive perception gets mentioned in the core rulebook but there is no specific rules about it?

4: Defense rule: to get +20 on defensive tests at the expense of ones action. Lets say the PC is acting later in the round. A skaven clanrat charges. Can the PC declare that he uses +20 defense already now losing his upcoming action but getting +20 on all opposed tests?

5: Fortune points: can a PC only use one FP per test once?
If that fails the only option is a “dark deal” and get a point of corruption/use a point of resilience for 100% success chance?

6: Talents: petty magic/arcane lore: Reading the new updated rules (errata …up to Int).
Can someone explain how the xp cost is calculated in relation to “No. of Petty spells currently known”?
The examples in the book make no sense to me.

7: Magic: Channeling: So casting some of the bigger spells (CN5+ ish) the player has to use multiple rounds just standing there doing the extended channeling test?
In 2nd edition even the bigger spells could be cast in one round if you had the magic points for it/ingredients boost etc. Not sure our wizard player is gonna find that very fun during encounters.

8: XP: Is there a table or something showing the required XP needed to advances to tier 2,3 and 4?
I guess it’s the same amount needed across all careers.
1: Correct, these skills are background skills of your PC. You do not bother again about your species skills but only your Career.

2: In general the way I see it skills in combat are used most of the time as Challenging +0, while out of combat as Average +20. There are exceptions of course.

3: I do not play the passive perception. Always make opposed check.

4: Note that this rule is optional. Since you decided to include it the player must declare it on his turn like all the other options.

5: Yes, all correct.

6: No comment

7: Experience has shown that Lore spells are quite powerful. One spell and the battle could be over. Yes, the concept is that for high level spells you need to spend time to Channel. Note that you can add advantage and there are some skills that give SLs, making it easier as you progress to cast in one round low level Lore spells.

8: Page 47 is quite thorough. Note that the advances used in character creation count towards XP cost.
Stanley2077
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:27 pm

Thanks for your reply!:-)
FasterThanJesus
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:30 pm
Location: UK

A guide has just been released with 1st/2nd edition to 4th edition conversions. You may find it at least a little helpful. https://www.cubicle7games.com/conversio ... -free-pdf/
Stanley2077
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:27 pm

FasterThanJesus wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:57 am
A guide has just been released with 1st/2nd edition to 4th edition conversions. You may find it at least a little helpful. https://www.cubicle7games.com/conversio ... -free-pdf/
I am using that allready, thank you:-)
Just finished converting the characters. So far so good.
Stanley2077
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:27 pm

(moved)
Last edited by Stanley2077 on Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
adambeyoncelowe
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:54 pm

Stanley2077 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:28 am
Hello :-)

I just bought the 4th edition core rulebook and got some questions.
For the last years I have be GM’ing for a group of players using 2nd edition. They how just entered there 3rd careers At the moment I am reading the new rules and trying out some test-encounters, converting 2nd to 4th editions characters/scenarios.

1: Species skills/talents: Advance 6 skills with 3/5 advances. What happens to the other skills? Meant to be bought later on using XP?

2: Simple/dramatic test: What is baseline +20 (average) or +0 (challenging) for a standard test. Seems strange to me that +0 is challenging and not average.

3: Passive perception gets mentioned in the core rulebook but there is no specific rules about it?

4: Defense rule: to get +20 on defensive tests at the expense of ones action. Lets say the PC is acting later in the round. A skaven clanrat charges. Can the PC declare that he uses +20 defense already now losing his upcoming action but getting +20 on all opposed tests?

5: Fortune points: can a PC only use one FP per test once?
If that fails the only option is a “dark deal” and get a point of corruption/use a point of resilience for 100% success chance?

6: Talents: petty magic/arcane lore: Reading the new updated rules (errata …up to Int).
Can someone explain how the xp cost is calculated in relation to “No. of Petty spells currently known”?
The examples in the book make no sense to me.

7: Magic: Channeling: So casting some of the bigger spells (CN5+ ish) the player has to use multiple rounds just standing there doing the extended channeling test?
In 2nd edition even the bigger spells could be cast in one round if you had the magic points for it/ingredients boost etc. Not sure our wizard player is gonna find that very fun during encounters.

8: XP: Is there a table or something showing the required XP needed to advances to tier 2,3 and 4?
I guess it’s the same amount needed across all careers.
1. You get all the Talents for your Species but only 6 Skills. You ignore the rest.

2. Challenging is usually for Opposed Tests. Average is for unopposed Tests. This is basically because if you have an average Characteristic of 31 (2d20+20), you'll still suck at a lot of things. The +20 was a way to reduce whiff without bumping up everyone's stats. On Opposed Tests, the bump isn't needed, as there's always a winner and a loser.

3. I think it just means a reactive Perception Test. Something similar happens to avoid the Surprised Condition, where the GM either calls for you to roll or rolls for you. The idea is that you aren't actively looking out for anything (hence it's passive), but may have a chance to detect it anyway. I would usually make it an Opposed Test versus an opponent's Stealth or whatever.

4. Announce it at any time, so long as you haven't already taken your action this Round. You then lose your action.

5. Only one per Test, yes.

6. The cost for Arcane Spells is essentially:
100xp - the first Int+1 spells
200xp - the next Int spells
300xp - the next Int spells
Etc.
The wording in the book is weird, but it's based on how many spells you *currently have* rather than the number of spells you want to buy. If you have an IntB of 5, your sixth spells costs the same as the first bracket because you 'currently' only have 5 spells (IntB x 1). So spells 1-6 all cost the same, spells 7-11 all cost the same, etc.

7. Yes, but note the Talents Aethyric Attunement, Instinctive Diction and Perfect Pitch. These all give extra SLs on Channelling or Casting Tests, which makes it easier to hit your target. Successfully casting spells also gives you Advantage (see p.164).

So the best way to cast high CN spells quickly is 1) to focus on getting your Language (Magick) up as high as you can and ignoring Channelling, 2) buying up Instinctive Diction and/or Perfect Pitch with Unusual Learning Endeavours, and 3) spamming Dart a few times against the same target, so you build up Advantage.

For the sake of proving a point, I got one Wizard up to ID4 and PP4 this way, which meant I got +8 SLs on any successful Language (Magick) Tests. I would therefore only need to score +0SLs on most spells to use them.

Additionally, the War Wizard Talent lets you cast one CN5 or below spell per Round without using your action. This is great value.

8. You just need to make sure you've completed all requirements and then pay 100xp to move up. The requirements are: all available Characteristics at +(tier x 5) and at least eight available Skills at +(tier x 5), plus one Talent from that tier.

So for tier 1, you need to get to +5 in all three Characteristics, get to +5 in all eight Skills and buy at least one Talent from that tier.

At tier 2, you need all four Characteristics (the first three from T1 plus the new one from T2) at +10 and any eight Skills (from any combination of the first eight and the next six Skills) at +10, then you pay another 100xp to move up to T3.

At T3 you need +15 in five Characteristics and any eight Skills, plus a Talent from T3. Then you pay 100xp again.

At T4, you need +20 on six Characteristics and any eight Skills, plus a Talent from T4. Then you pay 100xp and have completed the entire Career.

Note that you can move to another Career without completing your current tier (200xp if the same Class, 300xp if a different Class), but you can't move up a tier in the same Career if you don't complete the current one.
Stanley2077
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:27 pm

Thank you very much, Adambeyoncelowe, for your answers.
It helps me alot getting ready for the first 4th edition gaming night :D
Last edited by Stanley2077 on Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
adambeyoncelowe
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:54 pm

Stanley2077 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:22 am
Thanks you very much, Adambeyoncelowe, for your answers.
It helps me alot getting ready for the first 4th edition gaming night :D
No problem. It's a fiddly system for newbies, but you get used to it.
Stanley2077
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:27 pm

So movement using minis.

Core Book, page 165. "Moving during combat"

"The Movement Table shows how many yards you can normally move in a single turn, either Walking or Running ..." Above it states that you can normally move 4 squares(8yards).

- This got us confused. So as a players MOVE then can either "walk" or "run" then make an Action?
- If you "Sprint" using your ACTION ; you do an Athlethics test (RUN+SL extra yards) + MOVE (Walk or Run)?

Guess we are used to 2nd ed. movement system. How do you guys move using minis?
adambeyoncelowe
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:54 pm

Stanley2077 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:42 am
So movement using minis.

Core Book, page 165. "Moving during combat"

"The Movement Table shows how many yards you can normally move in a single turn, either Walking or Running ..." Above it states that you can normally move 4 squares(8yards).

- This got us confused. So as a players MOVE then can either "walk" or "run" then make an Action?
- If you "Sprint" using your ACTION ; you do an Athlethics test (RUN+SL extra yards) + MOVE (Walk or Run)?

Guess we are used to 2nd ed. movement system. How do you guys move using minis?
That's exactly right, yes.
Stanley2077
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:27 pm

Okey thanks - but why ever use "walk" when you can allways (run) as a Move for the double amount (and then use your Action to sprint on top of that if needed)?


On page 165, core rule book, it says: "This means if you have Movement 4, you can normally move 4 squares."

Below, in "Moving During Combat", it states: "The Movement Table shows how many yards you can normally move in a single Turn, either Walking or Running, without having to make an Athletics Test to sprint. Doing this will use your Move for your Turn."
User avatar
Orin J.
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:39 pm

Stanley2077 wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:35 am
Okey thanks - but why ever use "walk" when you can allways (run) as a Move for the double amount (and then use your Action to sprint on top of that if needed)?


On page 165, core rule book, it says: "This means if you have Movement 4, you can normally move 4 squares."

Below, in "Moving During Combat", it states: "The Movement Table shows how many yards you can normally move in a single Turn, either Walking or Running, without having to make an Athletics Test to sprint. Doing this will use your Move for your Turn."
this is a game system that explicitly says your move doesn't generally matter (top of pg 158) and doesn't really bother resolving issues like "if i move past the enemy and don't attack it we're not engaged and he can't hit me so long as i wait until after he made his move, so i'm free to kill the priest he guarded". they literally didn't bother considering it.
Stanley2077
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:27 pm

Hmm - yeah I got that feeling to.

I think we will stick to: a MOVE is your, let's say Move 4 is 4 squares/8 yards. Then charge is up to the run distance (as the rule says), and then a PC can use his Action for a Run distance move including the Athlectics roll for further/lower extra distance according to the rolled SL.
User avatar
Hyarion
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:56 am

If my players are in a scene where they are trying to sneak or infiltrate, then the difference between move and run is the penalty to move silently/hide/ or other related types.
I hold the glaive of Law against the Earth.
Post Reply