Questions on magic rules and mutations

Cubicle 7 // 2018
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Shambler
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:53 pm

Hello again,

another round of questions that came up during play:

- Ending spells: on p. 236 corebook under “duration“ it says that I may not simply end an active spell of mine but may only try to dispel it. Does that really mean that when I have cast Beast Tongue or Beast Form, which specify that I cannot speak while the spell is in effect, and thus not cast or dispell, I am stuck as a cat e.g. for Willpower minutes? And how would a dispel test against my own spellcasting work, since it's an opposed test?

- Dispelling seems rather easy/powerful: even if I lose the opposed test, as long as I have scored at least a SL (but fewer than the caster) it can still lead to the spell failing because my SL lower the SL of the caster, is that right? E.g. a caster wants to cast bolt (CN 4), he rolls 4 SL, I roll only 2 SL. I lose the opposed dispel check but the spell still fails?

- When changing into a beast via Beast Form, do my belongings change with me? What about wounds lost while in Beast Form, do they transfer when changing back? So, if I changed into a bear with 28 wounds, suffered 16 wounds and then changed back into my 14 wounds maximum wizard would he be considered to have lost 16 wounds, suffering a critical wound? Are there even official rules to these questions?

- My character rather sursprisingly gained a physical mutation (“fleshy tentacle“). Can I cut it off for good or will it automatically regrow? Are there rules for it?(The mutation was not due to corruption points but was the result of a spell cast upon me)

As always, thanks for any insight.
SigmariteOrWrong
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:55 am

Shambler wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:00 pm
- Ending spells: on p. 236 corebook under “duration“ it says that I may not simply end an active spell of mine but may only try to dispel it. Does that really mean that when I have cast Beast Tongue or Beast Form, which specify that I cannot speak while the spell is in effect, and thus not cast or dispell, I am stuck as a cat e.g. for Willpower minutes? And how would a dispel test against my own spellcasting work, since it's an opposed test?
Seems, yep, you'll be stuck for a while.

Otherwise you'd roll against your own original spellcasting success roll to dispell the effects.
Shambler wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:00 pm
- Dispelling seems rather easy/powerful: even if I lose the opposed test, as long as I have scored at least a SL (but fewer than the caster) it can still lead to the spell failing because my SL lower the SL of the caster, is that right? E.g. a caster wants to cast bolt (CN 4), he rolls 4 SL, I roll only 2 SL. I lose the opposed dispel check but the spell still fails?
This is one reason why Chanelling is useful. If your opponent has 4SL or more from Chanelling, you'd really have to out-do them on the language test to dispell stuff. Chanel the winds if you have time and ability, it makes your spells much beefier, more resistant to dispelling. Over-Chanelling for extra effects is ok too.
Shambler wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:00 pm
- When changing into a beast via Beast Form, do my belongings change with me? What about wounds lost while in Beast Form, do they transfer when changing back? So, if I changed into a bear with 28 wounds, suffered 16 wounds and then changed back into my 14 wounds maximum wizard would he be considered to have lost 16 wounds, suffering a critical wound? Are there even official rules to these questions?
Great questions. I'd say no to gear chaning, you are not chaning the clothes in any way, just your own form. For wounds I'd likely ask your GM for a ruling in the lack of other data. I'd likely say you had a proportion of wounds left in either state. Half dead either way.
Shambler wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:00 pm
- My character rather sursprisingly gained a physical mutation (“fleshy tentacle“). Can I cut it off for good or will it automatically regrow? Are there rules for it?(The mutation was not due to corruption points but was the result of a spell cast upon me)
Find a discreet surgeon and have it amputated, according the the surgery rules. Pay them well enough to keep them quiet.
Shambler
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:53 pm

SigmariteOrWrong wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:20 pm
Seems, yep, you'll be stuck for a while.

Otherwise you'd roll against your own original spellcasting success roll to dispell the effects.
SigmariteOrWrong wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:20 pm
Great questions. I'd say no to gear chaning, you are not chaning the clothes in any way, just your own form. For wounds I'd likely ask your GM for a ruling in the lack of other data. I'd likely say you had a proportion of wounds left in either state. Half dead either way.
While I think that you're right and the rules are rather clear on the dispelling, it does make Beast form and Beast Tongue even more so really a lot less attractive. Already limited concerning the beasts you can change into, if I am scouting as cat/owl/rat whatever, I'll not only be stuck as it for a pretty long time (40 minutes and more the better my character gets) and be more or less useless, my stuff (if it does not change with me) will be more or less unattended for the whole time. Or my party has to carry it around. Better not do it when there's much action or you have to flee. For the wounds, I'll ask the GM as you suggested.
SigmariteOrWrong wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:20 pm
This is one reason why Chanelling is useful. If your opponent has 4SL or more from Chanelling, you'd really have to out-do them on the language test to dispell stuff. Chanel the winds if you have time and ability, it makes your spells much beefier, more resistant to dispelling. Over-Chanelling for extra effects is ok too.
Just to be clear: SLs from channeling do not transfer to my Casting test, do they? I mean, once I have channeled enough to have rached the CN of the spell, I still have to make a Language Magick test (against a CN of "0") and only the SLs from the Language Magick test count in case of dispelling. So, e.g. if had 7 successes while channeling a CN 4 spell, those 3 extra SLs from channeling are lost, aren't they? Of course, if I do a castin test against CN 0, the chances to achieve some decent SLs are of course higher. And critical casting for make a spell immune to dispelling would always be an option.
SigmariteOrWrong wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:20 pm
Find a discreet surgeon and have it amputated, according the the surgery rules. Pay them well enough to keep them quiet.
Will do! ;-)

Thanks for your answers. As always, I am still interested in further opinions.
SigmariteOrWrong
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:55 am

Shambler wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:51 am
SigmariteOrWrong wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:20 pm
This is one reason why Chanelling is useful. If your opponent has 4SL or more from Chanelling, you'd really have to out-do them on the language test to dispell stuff. Chanel the winds if you have time and ability, it makes your spells much beefier, more resistant to dispelling. Over-Chanelling for extra effects is ok too.
Just to be clear: SLs from channeling do not transfer to my Casting test, do they? I mean, once I have channeled enough to have rached the CN of the spell, I still have to make a Language Magick test (against a CN of "0") and only the SLs from the Language Magick test count in case of dispelling. So, e.g. if had 7 successes while channeling a CN 4 spell, those 3 extra SLs from channeling are lost, aren't they? Of course, if I do a castin test against CN 0, the chances to achieve some decent SLs are of course higher. And critical casting for make a spell immune to dispelling would always be an option.
If their CN is 0, the effect is that you must reduce their casting language test to a failure or worse. If they succeed with even +0SL, the spell still works. If your counterspell works to reduce them to -SL, it fails.
adambeyoncelowe
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:54 pm

So in 2e, Night's Dark Masters explicitly says that trappings transform with you (though this is for Blood Gifts rather than spells). If you're looking for precedent, you could go with that.

As for Wounds, I would rule that the bear would turn back into a human with 12 Wounds left. The extra bulk of being a bear absorbed the injuries, even though that bulk has now vanished. In short: go for the lower of the beast form's remaining Wounds or your Wounds before transforming.
Shambler
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:53 pm

SigmariteOrWrong wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:13 pm

If their CN is 0, the effect is that you must reduce their casting language test to a failure or worse. If they succeed with even +0SL, the spell still works. If your counterspell works to reduce them to -SL, it fails.
Yeah, ok, then we're in agreement. Thanks for the clarification!
Shambler
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:53 pm

adambeyoncelowe wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:10 am
So in 2e, Night's Dark Masters explicitly says that trappings transform with you (though this is for Blood Gifts rather than spells). If you're looking for precedent, you could go with that.

As for Wounds, I would rule that the bear would turn back into a human with 12 Wounds left. The extra bulk of being a bear absorbed the injuries, even though that bulk has now vanished. In short: go for the lower of the beast form's remaining Wounds or your Wounds before transforming.
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll run them by my GM to see what he thinks.
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