Winds of Chaos

I generally* like the rules for size: damaging plus double damage is brutal but it is effective at representing the mass of larger creatures.

But halflings are small so presumably average sized humanoids apply these rules to them? This combined with lower strength and wound total makes halflings seem worryingly squishy. I get that halflings are absolutely not front line fighters in WFRP but basically any spare shot or sword strike seems extremely likely to 100 to 0 them. Am I missing something? Does anyone have experience of this in play?

*The size rules are a little silly when large creatures fight each other as their wounds are multiplied but there damage isn't so if you were fighting a giant with the aid of a dragon they would only contribute about as much damage as a particularly beefy average sized creature. This seems rare to come up and fine dramatically just sorta makes my head spin on a physical simulation level.

I have no experience games mastering a halfling character precisely because of this.

Whether this tells you anything I leave up to you...

Yes, the system as-written as very much intended for you to apply all those damage bonuses to halflings (but not goblins, who are the same height for some reason but are still medium) because they were very excited to have size rules and wanted them to be part of regular play. I just pushed them "back" a bit and had the damage bonuses apply for when monsters are 2 sizes apart instead of one. (as someone that nabs cats out of the air, i assure you they aren't getting any dodge bonuses for size.) same with stomps.

you should also remember that larger weapons (including claws!) should have much higher damage stats than normally sized ones.

Thank you for the responses. I think I'm going to buff large creature damage and just drop those rules altogether. I feel halflings are all ready pretty hard done by in melee and it just seems excessive.

best of luck with your campaign!

gaywitch wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:02 am
But halflings are small so presumably average sized humanoids apply these rules to them?

Page 341, the rule is pretty clear: "it multiplies any Damage caused by the number of steps larger it is (so, 2 steps=x2, ...."

Humans are just 1 step larger than Halflings, so Damage x1, not double.

... But still suffer a penalty of -2 SL if using Melee to defend against larger enemies (I said Melee, not Dodge )

sx dwarf wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:51 pmPage 341, the rule is pretty clear: "it multiplies any Damage caused by the number of steps larger it is (so, 2 steps=x2, ...."

Humans are just 1 step larger than Halflings, so Damage x1, not double.

If anyone is thinking that they can invoke this rule to receive x0 damage from an opponent, the rule's opening caveat is "If larger".

sx dwarf wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:51 pm

gaywitch wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:02 am
But halflings are small so presumably average sized humanoids apply these rules to them?

Page 341, the rule is pretty clear: "it multiplies any Damage caused by the number of steps larger it is (so, 2 steps=x2, ...."

Humans are just 1 step larger than Halflings, so Damage x1, not double.

... But still suffer a penalty of -2 SL if using Melee to defend against larger enemies (I said Melee, not Dodge )

That sounds way more reasonable. For some reason I thought the doubling started at 1 step. That actually seems playable just gotta telegraph that ogres and trolls are way scarier to halflings then to humans.

Thank you!

gaywitch wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:22 am

sx dwarf wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:51 pm

gaywitch wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:02 am
But halflings are small so presumably average sized humanoids apply these rules to them?

Page 341, the rule is pretty clear: "it multiplies any Damage caused by the number of steps larger it is (so, 2 steps=x2, ...."

Humans are just 1 step larger than Halflings, so Damage x1, not double.

... But still suffer a penalty of -2 SL if using Melee to defend against larger enemies (I said Melee, not Dodge )

That sounds way more reasonable. For some reason I thought the doubling started at 1 step. That actually seems playable just gotta telegraph that ogres and trolls are way scarier to halflings then to humans.

Thank you!

i recall one of the developers holding a Q&A and saying that halfings took double damage from average size opponents, but honestly the devs have not shown themselves to be very accurate in things like that. it was probably before the game fully released so people might have just taken it to heart.

of course damaging is virtually bad enough of a problem for the little bastards.

I consider the doubling of damage something you'd do to hack your own WFRP. It is completely unworkable as a published product.

Fights against large opponents (for halflings) or huge opponents become entirely unsatisfying, since your Wounds, Armour and Toughness cease to have meaning.

CapnZapp wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:24 am I consider the doubling of damage something you'd do to hack your own WFRP. It is completely unworkable as a published product.

it is a hack, actually! if you might recall the preorder's beta it didn't exist, the size difference gave smaller characters +10 to hit and dodge per level and didn't have the damage doubling, and it resulted in large monsters being entirely hapless because advantage was impossible for them to gain.

they added that to patch the issues advantage was causing.

Is there another hack that would work? E.g., no advantage versus creatures 2 or more steps larger? Or removing halfling bonuses altogether to just be done with it? Or both?

before my group decided the best way to play was to use a different system, i was going to try not losing advantage against opponents smaller than you. a case of not sweating the small stuff, if you feel what i mean.

Orin J. wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:45 pm before my group decided the best way to play was to use a different system, i was going to try not losing advantage against opponents smaller than you. a case of not sweating the small stuff, if you feel what i mean.

Thanks. It seems surprising that they just didn't increase larger creatures' WS, BS, S, T, base damage and Wounds, instead of the moving goalposts of Size.