Hide Skill (and Concealment Rural/Urban)

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Rat Catcher
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 1:11 am

Sat May 18, 2019 2:26 pm

Pages 48-49

Concealment Urban/Rural:
"Hide tests should be made with a +20% modifier if the character is keep­ ing still, or a + 5 % modifier if the character is moving cautiously.."

Page 69

Hide
"This test shows whether characters can evade discovery by skulking in the shadows, in a dark recess or similar location, whilst enemies march past."

Again Page 69:

"Curling into as small a space as possible, and taking advantage of the passageway's uneven surfaces, Silas waits silently for the Ores to pass."

Neither of the two sentences gives me the notion that Silas is moving. He is motionless and he is hiding. Why then, does the Concealment Rural/Urban skill, mentioning giving a +5% mod if the character is moving cautiously? This is also muddied by there being a "Sneak" skill which Concealment Rural/Urban doesn't mention.

How do you read the above, what do you with that +5% modifier?
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totsuzenheni
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Sat May 18, 2019 3:56 pm

Later in the description of hiding on p. 69 is written:

"A creature with an appropriate Silent Move skill may add a +10% modifier [ ... ] with Concealment skill may add a further +20%."

So i think the idea of hiding that the writers had in mind was of a character perhaps needing to move to stay hidden as the Orcs ( or whoever ) pass. ( The writers might also have been referring to movement such as aiming or lock picking, and though i think that's less likely the writers' intent it could still be taken account of in the same way. ) So a judgement needs to be made as to how effective the place of hiding is at hiding the character from any given angle and whether or not the character will need to move to stay hidden at any point. I would say that a character that is hiding and staying still could get a total of +30% ( +10% from an appropriate Silent Move skill combined with +20% from an appropriate Concealment skill ), whereas a character that is hiding but who needs to move for some reason ( but staying hidden ) could get a total of +15% ( +10% from an appropriate Silent Move skill combined with +5% from an appropriate Concealment skill ). Note that ( it seems to me that ) moving to remain hidden is different to sneaking, for which there is a separate entry on p.71, which refers the reader to the entry on listening on p.70.
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Orin J.
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Sat May 18, 2019 10:16 pm

i think it was more intended to imply being aware of not disturbing anything that might make noise or otherwise direct attention to their location, but it's not really compatible with the way the rule is exeucted. I'd just say +5% for moving at half speed or lower for caution, or otherwise having to move like say having to move around a bookcase to avoid a cultist as he searches the archives room for interlopers.
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Rat Catcher
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Sun May 19, 2019 3:59 am

I think I'm going to house rule that the +5% (pg 48-49) is deducted off the Listen check (pg 70) when a character employs the 'Sneak' skill (pg 71).

Do you think that will work or does it upset something somewhere else?
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Rat Catcher
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Sun May 19, 2019 4:05 am

Orin J. wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 10:16 pm
i think it was more intended to imply being aware of not disturbing anything that might make noise or otherwise direct attention to their location, but it's not really compatible with the way the rule is exeucted. I'd just say +5% for moving at half speed or lower for caution, or otherwise having to move like say having to move around a bookcase to avoid a cultist as he searches the archives room for interlopers.
So, for small movements, like shifting from foot to foot or sidling around a bookshelf as a cultist (as you point out) enters. That sounds like it could work too. Though again, I'd have to say you'd use the Sneak skill for that.
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Orin J.
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Sun May 19, 2019 10:52 am

Rat Catcher wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:05 am
Orin J. wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 10:16 pm
i think it was more intended to imply being aware of not disturbing anything that might make noise or otherwise direct attention to their location, but it's not really compatible with the way the rule is exeucted. I'd just say +5% for moving at half speed or lower for caution, or otherwise having to move like say having to move around a bookcase to avoid a cultist as he searches the archives room for interlopers.
So, for small movements, like shifting from foot to foot or sidling around a bookshelf as a cultist (as you point out) enters. That sounds like it could work too. Though again, I'd have to say you'd use the Sneak skill for that.
like i said, it's not really compatible with the rest of the game system's execution. there's a lot about 4th edition that's "clever" but was clearly written in a vacuum from the rest of the rules system and it's kind of a shame.
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totsuzenheni
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Sun May 19, 2019 11:56 am

Orin J. wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:52 am
like i said, it's not really compatible with the rest of the game system's execution. there's a lot about 4th edition that's "clever" but was clearly written in a vacuum from the rest of the rules system and it's kind of a shame.
To be fair that might be because this is 1st edition.
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Orin J.
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Sun May 19, 2019 5:17 pm

totsuzenheni wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 11:56 am
Orin J. wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:52 am
like i said, it's not really compatible with the rest of the game system's execution. there's a lot about 4th edition that's "clever" but was clearly written in a vacuum from the rest of the rules system and it's kind of a shame.
To be fair that might be because this is 1st edition.
That'll show me for having multiple discussions about the same thing at once! sorry for any confusion i caused, i'm trying to help someone with similar issues in a game they're running and my head was stuck in the wrong gear.
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