Undead (vampires) in Old World

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satakuua
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This mostly as I started reading Drachenfels.

Jack Yeovil novels refer to the Crescent Moon tavern as a place the undead seem to frequent. And with the counts of Sylvania does this mean vampires are somewhat tolerated?

I find it odd and somewhat too high fantasy and/or Discworld (which is not so surprising with Yeovil) to think such a place would be allowed to exist in Altdorf. Could be people do not know of it, yet this does not seem to be the case based on the novels.
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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There are various versions of the Warhammer World of course. If you're thinking of the grittier, more subversive Warhammer World into which the Drachenfels novel was placed bear in mind that it was canonically loose. I don't find it to be odd in a 'low fantasy' universe for there to be a favourite haunt for the undead. Groups and identities are tolerated, albeit whilst at the same time being victimised and/or scapegoated etc., if they are powerful or useful or not worth bothering about. Altdorf is big enough for people to turn a blind to such small locales and goings on.
satakuua
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People, and I’d imagine that it would be most of them, no doubt would leave such a place be, just that it does not seem believable witch hunters and templars of Morr and others allowed it to exist.

Is there any mention of how the politics with Sylvania were handled, for example? Something Rotten was severely scorned due to its depiction of undead, the attitude towards them (especially as some player characters might not react too well to such creatures)?

The novel does rock, no complaints. And based on the page in 1d4chan looks like Drachenfels itself has been a subject of great debate.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Drachenfels
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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It depends how much power and sincerity you think the witch hunters and Morrites have. It could also be a case of witch hunters thinking that the 'witches' are to found in the periphery and not in the civilised centre.
satakuua
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True, that is a fair point. And that they would be all be clean of heart and pure.
Knight of the Lady
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To my Warhammer it wouldn't work that it was common knowledge, but I don't at all find it odd that certain taverns have a certain appeal or draws on a certain group as their cliental. For example I would think that there are taverns that caters to Ulricans, to Halfling merchants, to Dwarf masons and almost any social group will have certain places where they hang to a larger degree, along with more generic taverns that draws a general crowd, in Altdorf. Hence I wouldn't think it would be a problem with a tavern that draws on, well, vampires and their hangers-on for their regulars as long as the vampires' true nature don't get publically known. Sure they may still draw frowns and creepy individuals. But that's probably it.
Last edited by Knight of the Lady on Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Orin J.
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i think places the undead frequent are more of a "we cater to an exclusive clientle" sorta deal and just don't let anyone they don't already know (to be users of the dark arts) in" most of the time. it's less of a publicly advertised thing and more vampires bring more of their kind into the fold and bring them there along the way. everyone outside would just chalk it up to those loony nobles wanting to play at being dark and brooding sometimes, the empire's nobility are sort of a bunch of too rich cosplayers sometimes.

also altdorf is lousy with suspicious places, a few of them are likely to cater to the undead or servants of darkness simply playing the odds..
satakuua
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I half remember Crescent Moon mentioned in Beasts in Velvet in a way seemed to me it was quite common knowledge it was a place for vampires.
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Jackdays
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The Crescent Moon sure seems like some Vampire place from True Blood. 8-) But, again it was invented so long ago - it doesn't fit that well in Warhammer fluff. I would rule same what Orin J said before - For public it just seems strange unique place, with weird reputation. But, truth is, that it is a Vampire gathering place, and the keepers (maybe Vampires) know that and have set rules how it works.

Vampires do exit pretty much everywhere in the Old World. Even they remain in the shadows, they do exits also in the big cities (maybe not so much in shadows back in Sylvania…). Example - Lahmians have a brothel in Nuln. Nobody doesn't know this publicly. Because there are also so many active hunter groups: Entire Cult of Morr, Witch-Hunters (Vampire Hunters), Morrite Templar Orders, Dreamwalkers, Agents of the Shroud, Amethyst Wizards…

More about Vampires - Nights Dark Masters (WFRP2) is pretty good sourcebook.
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Karanthir
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Just to echo what others have said, as much as I love Drachenfels (which is a lot), I don't think it can be considered entirely canonical, even if playing in the 1st edition version of the setting. Jack Yeovil was basically doing his own thing at a time when the setting was only loosely defined anyway. And good suggestions have already been made as to how to make something like The Crescent Moon make sense in more recent versions of the Warhammer World.

As for the Vampire Counts, I don't think they were ever really tolerated. Bear in mind Vlad first rose to power in the Time of Three Emperors when there wasn't really a unified Empire, so other counts were probably either wilfully ignorant, actually ignorant, or didn't care what was going on in that weird eastern province. As far as I remember, the official cover story is that Vlad pretended to be a succession of counts until he was ready to show himself (although I might have filled that in myself from various inferences rather than anything explicitly stated). And when he did reveal himself he definitely wasn't tolerated. Same with Manfred when he first showed himself. The current situation is potentially a bit more ambiguous depending on which version of the setting you use.

Repeating Jackdays's suggestion to read Night's Dark Masters. It's definitely a good place to start.
satakuua
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Yeah, I have the pdf. Yeovil might have taken liberties it comes to the setting, but his stuff does work like Alex DeLarge put it:

”Oh bliss, bliss and heaven... Oh, it was gorgeousness and gorgeousity made flesh... And then, a bird of rarest-spun heaven metal, or like silvery wine flowing in a spaceship, gravity all nonsense now... I knew such lovely pictures.”

Damn good pulp I calls it.
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Karanthir
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Drachenfels is one of, if not my favourite Warhammer novel, so you'll get no argument from me!
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