The Enemy Within to come...

Cubicle 7 // 2018
Arcane Adventurer
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:55 am

Generally speaking the B&M program is there to support physical storefronts. Online sales and discounters generally don't get to participate. SO people have a choice - pay less and no pdf or pay close to retail price and get a free pdf. Which you choose depends upon whether you want that pdf or not.
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totsuzenheni
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:00 am

Chaos Cards have a physical store front.
FasterThanJesus
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Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:26 am

It was just an FYI as it's the first pre-order I've seen for the collector's edition. edit: in the UK.

I do agree with totsuzenheni though, it really could do with a downloadable PDF and irrespective of the discount, the amount of money it costs it warrants one.
satakuua
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Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:28 pm

I’m new to all this. Is the new Enemy Within pre or post Storm of Chaos?
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totsuzenheni
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Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:17 pm

satakuua wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:28 pm
I’m new to all this.
Ha! No shit :) . I advise not spoiling it for yourself with spoilers and the like.
satakuua wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:28 pm
Is the new Enemy Within pre or post Storm of Chaos?
It's pre Storm of Chaos. Indeed, though it may be a little presumptuous of me to say so, i'd say it's pre any version of the Warhammer universe in which the Storm of Chaos would have been considered as a future part of the narrative by the writers, et al. (At least the 1st edition The Enemy Within campaign is, of which this 4th edition The Enemy Within campaign seems to be a fairly faithful, though expanded and amended, remake thereof. There was also a 3rd edition The Enemy Within, which though it made reference to the 1st edition The Enemy Within was otherwise something different set some decades later (or so i recall reading). I suppose this 1st edition remake might borrow some stuff from its 3rd edition namesake, but there's no signs of that thus far.)
satakuua
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Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:16 pm

Okay, now I am interested. Not a fan of Storm of Chaos, but was quite certain it needs to factor in. No idea how’d they make it all work so quite relieved they did not even try.

I will place a preorder. Not for the whole box, but the first books.

EDIT: 4th edition is its own thing, right? Meaning they are not tied to post-Storm of Chaos setting? Would not make much sense to create the sourcebooks if all that went to hell after The Enemy Within and Storm, I guess.
FasterThanJesus
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:44 am

As a consequence of the Warhammer World being nuked from orbit, Cubicle7 have a fairly free hand in picking the timing of the setting. They've effectively gone back to the period of the WFRP v1, which is about 20 years before Storm of Chaos.

GW had diverged WFRP and WFB in the interim for commercial reasons and one consequence is TEW is incongruent to the WFB material that follows. WFRP v2 branches the setting of WFB back in at a time just following the Storm of Chaos. So we got a nice shiny new ruleset but a setting a lot of people didn't like.

Since GW now has no vested interest in the Warhammer World (World That Was), we get a reset to the setting back to The Empire in the 25th century with new rules.
Last edited by FasterThanJesus on Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
satakuua
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:16 am

Hell yes! I am quite happy!
satakuua
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:28 am

I am actually surprisingly happy. Not that interested in the new ruleset, 2nd edition works well enough for me, but I do hope the new TEW is a good one. And the sourcebooks.
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totsuzenheni
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:18 am

To (attempt to) be clear, and to paraphrase both myself and FasterThanJesus to some extent, WFRP 1st edition's The Enemy Within campaign is set 10 or 20 years (depending on which commentator is correct) before the WFB Storm of Chaos if it is set within the/a version of the Warhammer Fantasy universe that has both WFRP 1st edtion's The Enemy Within campaign and the WFB Storm of Chaos in it. I'm not sure that any such version of the Warhammer Fantasy universe ever (officially) existed. The version(s) of the Warhammer Fantasy universe that include(s) the WFB Storm of Chaos had rewritten/retconned the previous version(s) of the Warhammer Fantasy universe such that the information in WFRP 1st edition's The Enemy Within campaign would be contradictory and non-canon. The version(s) of the Warhammer Fantasy universe into which WFRP 1st edition's The Enemy Within campaign was placed did not include the WFB Storm of Chaos. Indeed the WFB Storm of Chaos had not (as far as i'm aware) even been conceived of at the time in which WFRP 1st edition's The Enemy Within campaign was produced. Further, WFRP 1st edition's The Enemy Within campaign to some extent defined the/a version of the Warhammer Fantasy universe, much as the WFB Storm of Chaos did, though in subtler ways. That version, or those versions of the Warhammer Fantasy universe that (officially) included WFRP 1st edtion's The Enemy Within campaign, and were to some extent defined by it, quickly became incompatible, to some extent, with the WFB version(s) of the Warhammer Fantasy universe as new editions of WFB were produced and WFRP 1st edition was dropped by Games Workshop. Later, when WFRP 2nd edition, and then WFRP 3rd edition were produced, there were (official) attempts to make the WFRP (2nd and 3rd editions') version(s) of the Warhammer Fantasy universe compatible with or the same as the current version of the WFB Warhammer universe. WFRP 1st edition's The Enemy Within campaign was not (officially) updated for WFRP 2nd or 3rd edition (though there was a WFRP 3rd edition 'The Enemy Within' campaign, which as mentioned was not the same as WFRP 1st edtion's The Enemy Within campaign, though it referenced it). I think i'm correct in writing that the WFB Storm of Chaos was part of the (official) Warhammer Fantasy universe when WFRP 2nd edition was produced, and consequently the WFRP 2nd edition version of the Warhammer Fantasy universe included it as part of recent history, whereas the WFB Storm of Chaos was no longer a part of the (official) Warhammer Fantasy universe when WFRP 3rd edition was produced, and consequently the WFRP 3rd edition version of the Warhammer Fantasy universe did not include it, but that's by the by. Now that the WFB Warhammer Fantasy universe has been destroyed and replaced by the Age Of Sigmar Warhammer Fantasy universe Games Workshop seem to be happy to let material be written for any previous non-Age of Sigmar version(s) of the Warhammer Fantasy universe, which are now collectively referred to by Games Workshop as the 'World That Was'. So far it seems as though WFRP 4th edition's version of the Warhammer universe is the same as, or close to, WFRP 1st edition's version of the Warhammer Fantasy universe. So too for the 'directors cut' version of WFRP 1st edition's The Enemy Within campaign that is being produced for WFRP 4th edition. In this version of the Warhammer Fantasy universe, supposedly and essentially a WFRP 1st edition of the Warhammer Fantasy universe, the WFB Storm of Chaos hasn't happened and isn't going to happen... unless of course someone decides it, in some form or version, does.
Last edited by totsuzenheni on Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:42 am, edited 7 times in total.
Karanthir
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:34 am

totsuzenheni wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:17 pm
There was also a 3rd edition The Enemy Within, which though it made reference to the 1st edition The Enemy Within was otherwise something different set some decades later (or so i recall reading). I suppose this 1st edition remake might borrow some stuff from its 3rd edition namesake, but there's no signs of that thus far.)
FasterThanJesus wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:44 am
As a consequence of the Warhammer World being nuked from orbit, Cubicle7 have a fairly free hand in picking the timing of the setting. They've effectively gone back to the period of the WFRP v1, which is about 20 years before Storm of Chaos.
Just wanted to clarify a couple of points in these posts (and add a bit of my own speculation). The Enemy Within starts in 2512 (which is the year in the Ubersreik Guide from the 4th edition Starter Set), and Storm of Chaos was 2521/22, so slightly under a decade later. I could potentially see C7 building up to something that merges SoC with the End Times (assuming they get that long and are allowed to not go full-on apocalypse by GW).

That's where the 3rd edition TEW could come in. It's set in 2522, and the start of a Chaos invasion is going on at the same time (though very much in the background as far as the PCs are concerned). 3rd edition WFRP was supposed to be compatible with 8th edition WFB, after SoC had been retconned out of existence. So this was probably the start of the End Times, but it's vague enough that you could have it either way.

Graeme Davis has said that TEW Director's Cut won't make any use of the 3rd edition version, but there's no reason why C7 couldn't convert it to 4th edition further down the line as a bridge between the original TEW and whatever happens next. They've already converted one 3rd edition adventure, so there's a precedent now at least.
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totsuzenheni
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:45 am

(Apologies if everyone got 7+ updates for my previous post. I realise i should have used 'preview' rather than 'submit' when editing. No irony intended by this post.)
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Jackdays
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Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:08 pm

WFRP3 TEW is great campaign, but totally different than original TEW. It just uses the same name. This new one, WFRP4 TEW, is pure remake. Updates probably many things there and there (with new fluff, that wasn't there 30 years ago). But, probably keeps the story pretty much the same - until the ending. That will be interesting to see, what they have created for that one (or couple of those last books - Kislev seems to be out).

WFRP1 and WFRP4 TEW is set 2512-

WFRP3 TEW seems to be set on 2522, but if it happens during the Storm of Chaos, then it should be 2521 (Surtha Lenks invasion against the Empire). Now, The End Times is different than Storm of Chaos, and WFRP3 TEW might be set more that in mind. The End Times negated the SoC event and created new longer war, which ended to total destruction of the world. SoC lasted only from 2521 to 2522 and ends pretty well leaving just partly ruined lands. TET goes from 2521 to 2528 (and then the end…).

I think C7 is leaving this open. Everyone can decide how they will play the future of Warhammer World, if their games reach circa 2521 and beyond. You can ignore both SoC and TET. Or play either one...
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Karanthir
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:37 am

Jackdays wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:08 pm
I think C7 is leaving this open. Everyone can decide how they will play the future of Warhammer World, if their games reach circa 2521 and beyond. You can ignore both SoC and TET. Or play either one...
Of course, if they go with SoC (or something similar that they make up themselves), it gives them scope to adapt 2nd edition adventures, which would require even less effort than 3rd edition ones.
totsuzenheni wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:18 am
[Lots of interesting stuff]
My own impression from what I've seen so far of the 4th edition background is that C7 are trying to merge the style of 1st edition WFRP with more recent versions of the Warhammer world in WFB. I imagine they can only get away with diverging so far from GW - even if GW don't have much stock in the 'World that Was' anymore, it's still their IP. For example, we've seen Gnomes re-introduced, but I think if/when Bretonnia comes up it will be the WFB version rather than the 1st edition WFRP version. And all the mentions of the 'God-Emperor' Sigmar in the 4th edition rulebook definitely feel more like latter day GW than something from the late 80s/early 90s era (not to say it's something GW insisted upon, just that it's the sort thing they would do now rather than then).
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totsuzenheni
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:46 am

Karanthir wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:37 am
Jackdays wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:08 pm
I think C7 is leaving this open. Everyone can decide how they will play the future of Warhammer World, if their games reach circa 2521 and beyond. You can ignore both SoC and TET. Or play either one...
totsuzenheni wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:18 am
[Lots of interesting stuff]
My own impression from what I've seen so far of the 4th edition background is that C7 are trying to merge the style of 1st edition WFRP with more recent versions of the Warhammer world in WFB.
Yes, pretty much.

Given that we are dipping into the development of the Warhammer Fantasy universe and its associated games i will bring your-all's attention to Gideon's 'Awesome Lies' blog, which is building a history of WFRP 1st edtion and the early WFB editions, as well as some information on WFRP 4th edition. Awesome Lies is here: https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/ .
Last edited by totsuzenheni on Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
FasterThanJesus
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Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:27 am

Gideon's blog really is awesome. He's not quite at WFRP v1/TEW yet in the Real World timeline, but it's currently showing the foundations for everything that will follow.
Karanthir
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Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:10 am

Yes, really can't say enough good things about Gideon's blog! A must read for anyone interested in the (pre-)history of this game.
Capitaneus Fractus
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Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:45 am

Karanthir wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:37 am
but I think if/when Bretonnia comes up it will be the WFB version rather than the 1st edition WFRP version.
If I'm recalling correctly, the version of WFRP1 is also the WFB version... the WFB3's up to Warhammer Armies.
The version of Warhammer Armies, then, became WFRP2's... But WFB6 (or was it WFB7?) made Bretonnia grimmer and more perilous, firstly by showing how peasants are overburdened by Bretonnian's nobility; secondly by showing that Bretonnian's nobility is manipulated by Asraï and follow a false goddess.

In my humble, the best thing that C7 could do would be to mix-up those two versions: Rather than Warhammer Armies's 13th century Bretonnia or WFRP1's 17th century's Bretonnia, it should be a 16th century Bretonnia, which is consistent with the rest of the Old World and while still allowings knights and feudal organization (The most complete armours happened in that century).

Keeping the false goddess of the Lake and the yoke on peasant's neck, is a good thing. But there should still be cities and burghers... Not having them is foolish. And the nobility's corruption might be divided between those, mainly in courts, who tend to be quite fascinated by Slaanesh's mysteries and those, mainly within the knightly society, who are more fascinated by Khorne's mysteries... Without necessary recognizing Slaanesh or Khorne as who they are. That might be the source of a civil war between Slaaneshite Charles and Khornite Louen.
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Theo
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Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:50 pm

Re Bretonnia: the very brief writeup in the WFB 3rd edition rulebook suggested a late-Renaissance Bretonnia similar to what's described in 1E WFRP. Then, Warhammer Armies (still 3E WFB) gives us the first medieval Bretonnia - though it's still not Arthurian, but rather something like later Hundred Years War France - early 15th century or so. (It's notable that the Bretonnian army has more artillery than the Empire one in Warhammer Armies!) Considering that the Empire army at this stage looks c. 1500 if not even earlier, the gap between them isn't huge.

Then, of course, the infamous 5E WFB Bretonnia book gave us the shiny Arthurian Bretonnia.

I agree a 16th-century Bretonnia would be a good "compromise" now, but we'll see what happens.
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Orin J.
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Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:25 pm

really, warhammer's charm as a setting is partly from the dissonence between things, you can have an army of advanced war machines and air support steamrolled by a bunch of green hoolagins because they were yellin' REAL loud, and a nobleman might be a master diplomat but also insists on wearing a had wider than he is tall and is flanked at all times by a zealot who hates effectively anyone and this is normal.

having a bretonnia where every other member of a noble family is either a virtuous paragon of chivalry upholding the romantic image of a knight, or a lecherous theiving gladhander who hires absolute hordes of vile minions to torment fiflthy peasents because he keeps backstabbing them and neither every twigs to what the other does all the time doesn't seem the least bit out of place.
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