Maps - which are you using?

The enemy lurks in shadows
Post Reply
Cardboardant
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:37 am

Greetings all,

I was wondering which maps you are using in your games?
To say that, over time, the maps are inconsistent would be understating the issue!

I have mostly used the map in v1 of DotR (the large poster one).

I have also used MadAlfreds maps (that were converted to digital by Gitzman (and he then stitched them together for his 'super detailed' map). But these maps do not tally with the DotR one (it does not contain a lot of the villages around Towns and Cities, which can be explained as less detail - but then other villages have appeared, such as Wörlitz between Aldorf and Kemperbad).

But then we have the 4e one by Andy Law in the endpapers. This map does not resemble any of the maps that came before (between Aldorf and Kemperbad, whole new villages have appeared and others have vanished...).
I would be intrigued as to where he got his information from.

So, which map (or maps) are you using?
(With particular reference to DotR - the Reik and surrounds, between Altdorf and Nuln).

Cheers all
User avatar
Hyarion
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:56 am

One idea would be that towns can re-name themselves. Perhaps they want to 'rebrand' themselves to avoid association with past events, or because another town in another province has become associated with some misdeed (Nope! We're not *that* Wurlitz! This is Peshtigo). Perhaps through the trifecta of feudal land grants, estate inheritance, and familial intermarriage, possession of the town has passed to a new lord who wants to try and revitalize the area. I think we take for granted how static maps tend to be and how quickly we have access to them; accurate maps used to be one of a monarch's most valuable military assets (even up to the late 18th and 19th century). That's a long-winded way of saying, perhaps the maps are just different versions of the same regions? Some maps may be older and show towns that have since been razed by beastmen that no longer exist. Some maps may be newer and show new towns that have been founded since the last maps were drawn. Some may simply be different due to the skill (or lack thereof) of the mapmakers in question.

So I would turn it into a story device and just run with it.
Last edited by Hyarion on Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
I hold the glaive of Law against the Earth.
Capitaneus Fractus
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:41 am
Location: Gisoreux

Veniam, Duelli Malleum, phantasticum ludum personae uidebo, in fera terra periculosorum aduenturorum ludebam.
Cardboardant
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:37 am

@Hyarion:
Thats all well and good (and an arguement that has been made many a time, and by GW themselves) but:
1. As a GM, we should know the current state of The Empire.
2. TEW takes place at a fixed period in time; settlements disapearing, others appearing and others being renamed makes no sense in that context.

@Captain Fractus:
Yours appears to be based on the V1 map from DotR - this one has the 2 villages mentioned in rumours - Blutroch and Teufeleuer (these are also on MadAlreds maps, but only Blutroch is on Andy Laws 4e map).
Last edited by Cardboardant on Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Hyarion
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:56 am

As the GM, you can make the current state of the Empire whatever you want. If that's not palatable for you, then just pick a map and declare it to be authoritative by GM fiat.

I said that settlements disappearing/appearing/renaming is a reason for maps to be out of sync. So what's happening in TEW is not necessarily towns appearing and disappearing (or just being mislabeled on the map), but you are seeing maps that were made at different points in time.
I hold the glaive of Law against the Earth.
Cardboardant
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:37 am

Hyarion wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:50 am
As the GM, you can make the current state of the Empire whatever you want. If that's not palatable for you, then just pick a map and declare it to be authoritative by GM fiat.
Hence why I was curious as to what "world" people were playing in :D

At a basic level, the 4e TEW mentions at least one location not on the new map. Dont know if there are more.
Visitor Q
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:29 am

Mostly the MadAlfreds ones. But I sometimes use other ones if they have particular features on them.

But in practice after years of worrying about this kind of thing I've found it really doesn't matter. The PCs in my games have rarely actually had access to a map of the Empire (if a detailed accurate one even exists) so maps are used in a general sense to let them know where the major settlements are in relation to each other.

Also in my game no map is a meta reference point with a definitive source of truth. They are all in game artefacts drawn by an NPC cartographer. So the accuracy is only revealed once it is important. Even to me!

As a GM I know the high level view of what is happening, but anything else is decided once it becomes a plot point.

City maps are something else though. Here it is the original 1ed ones. I think the map of Middenheim in 4e PBtT is very pretty but that isn't my Middenheim. (It does a good job of showing the topography though. That's cool).
User avatar
Jackdays
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:29 am
Contact:

There are few good map sources. This site, Winds of Chaos, has pretty good maps about the Empire.

http://www.gitzmansgallery.com has pretty good collection of maps. AND his own huge map.

Both sources probably use some amount, what Madalfred has created back in the day.

You asked about Andy Laws maps versus WFRP1 maps. It's been more than 30 years since original WFRP1 maps came. World has changed. HUGE amount of more information has since been created (stories/novels, adventures, WFRP versions, WFB stuff, digital games, articles...). So, huge amount of new places have appeared. Not to make this easy - Yes, some places seem to have moved over the years and editions and so on. Some of that could be just "bugs"/mistakes by different cartographers. I think Andy seem to have tried to collected pretty much everything there is and combine this to his maps.
Welcome to grim and perilous Norsca. Welcome to Kalevala Hammer.

kalevalahammer@gmail.com
www.kalevalahammer.com
Post Reply