Middenheim: City of the White Wolf

The enemy lurks in shadows
dry_erase
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ExReey wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:52 am
Zisse wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:39 am
ExReey wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:31 am
Book looks great, but the Middenheim map? Hmm one of the worst WFRP maps ever, imo.
Can you tell why you do not like it? Is it the colour design, missing information? Something else?
The graphical design, it has a bit of a cartoony look imo.
The relative sizes don't look right: Ulricsmund is like 6 or 7 steps high. If you decide to draw detailed single houses and stairs, they should be right.
The City doesn't look as "grand" as in the original City of the White Wolf map; if you compare them side by side, the old one looks like a grand metropole, the new one like a midsize town. The old map has so much more buidings and stuff on it
I like it, but I understand where you're coming from. It's stylistic, with the number of buildings representative rather than literal - like the Hogshead Marienburg map or many historical city maps e.g.

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/franc ... 0_88_b.jpg


It doesn't convey the 'real' building density of Middenheim. What I personally like is the attempt to partly represent the vertiginous nature of the city, with steep sloping streets. The front cover of the book is the first time I've seen Middenheim looking like a cold city built on top of a mountain.

I've read the book now and I think it's fantastic. 'City of Chaos' was one of the best WFRP1 supplements, but it was also intended as a generic 'Warhammer City'. The new book conveys a place with a unique culture - the various sects of Ulricans, the role of the criminal and noble classes, the influence of wizards and magic. It doesn't feel like Altdorf, Marienburg, Ubersreik or anywhere other than Middenheim.

I also like how it draws on every prior reference to Middenheim and integrates them into a satisfying whole. Little things like the Vermillion Pawn or Erich Hinfällig (from the original Flame Warhammer Companion) make a welcome return, and there are references from the Black Library 'Hammers of Ulric' novel. There's plenty of new stuff too.
adambeyoncelowe
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RubbleRunner wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:46 am
Didn't Andy Law supervise the Reikland map...
I think he did it himself? Now that he's no longer with C7, I guess they need a new mapmaker.

The map's okay, I think, but Andy's were much better and more in-keeping with the setting and style of 4e.
Ash247
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I have to agree that the map lets the book down a little, I thought at first the streets were canals.

I'm just going to shoe horn everything into the original map :)
sx dwarf
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FasterThanJesus wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:31 pm
Downloading and printing now
If you print the first version of a C7 PDF you have big cojones.
sx dwarf
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ExReey wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:52 am
Zisse wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:39 am
ExReey wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:31 am
Book looks great, but the Middenheim map? Hmm one of the worst WFRP maps ever, imo.
Can you tell why you do not like it? Is it the colour design, missing information? Something else?
It's not a "bad" map, but it's definitely a disappointment to me. WFRP always had great maps, and I consider the recent Reikland map as THE best fantasy RPG map ever drawn.
Yes but at least we got a scale on the Middenheim map and the resolution don't suck, so we can actually can read the small details.
RubbleRunner
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My problem with the map — as a happy devotee of the Foundry VTT WFRP implementation — is that it is too abstracted to be useful as a detailed, zoomable VTT map.
FasterThanJesus
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sx dwarf wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:19 am
FasterThanJesus wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:31 pm
Downloading and printing now
If you print the first version of a C7 PDF you have big cojones.
LOL, true.

I preordered the book from them, so I'll be getting the physical copy, too. I really don't like reading this stuff on a screen - monitor or ebook reader.
FasterThanJesus
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Location: UK

Possibly the worst warhammer pun is still around - 1812 overcure!
dry_erase
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FasterThanJesus wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:45 pm
Possibly the worst warhammer pun is still around - 1812 overcure!
Ha! I think it's just beaten by the 'War of the Poses'. Not just a terrible pun, but also a very contrived gag about statues in complete different cities.
FasterThanJesus
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Location: UK

dry_erase wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:54 pm
FasterThanJesus wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:45 pm
Possibly the worst warhammer pun is still around - 1812 overcure!
Ha! I think it's just beaten by the 'War of the Poses'. Not just a terrible pun, but also a very contrived gag about statues in complete different cities.
Being a Lancastrain, that and The Black Pool Illuminations always amused me.
Last edited by FasterThanJesus on Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FasterThanJesus
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Location: UK

It's claiming a population of 400,000. I'm thinking that should be 40,000 and an extra 0 has sneaked in.
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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Time for the tipex.
adambeyoncelowe
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FasterThanJesus wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:09 pm
It's claiming a population of 400,000. I'm thinking that should be 40,000 and an extra 0 has sneaked in.
This may be intentional. There has been a trend towards pushing the population numbers up. Perhaps to have Altdorf at one million or so, when the time comes.
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Gideon
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I've posted my thoughts about the book in a quick review on Awesome Lies:

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... y-slicker/
Rangdo
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Gideon wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:37 am
I've posted my thoughts about the book in a quick review on Awesome Lies:

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... y-slicker/
Thanks for this. Your luke-warm reviews of the new TEW have been instrumental in me holding off from getting them right out the gate. It's great to hear that this works so well.

I honestly don't know what they're thinking with the maps, though. There must be some way to produce a GM's map with everything laid out clearly, and a more abstract in-universe one, à la the Marienburg map. Or at least commit to one or the other.
adambeyoncelowe
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The roads do look like canals or rivers. Especially with the 'pouring' effect on inclines (i.e., when roads dip down a level).
Capitaneus Fractus
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dry_erase wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:54 am
It's stylistic, with the number of buildings representative rather than literal - like the Hogshead Marienburg map or many historical city maps
Alas, it looks like obvious and unhidden that it was done on a graphic tablet. That is my main problem with this map.

Many if not most contemporary illustrators work on graphic tablet nowadays, but some are talented enough to not let their tools dominate their own skills. One might make a map draw on a graphic tablet looks like one of the "many historical city maps". The artist who draw this map of Middenheim failed in this task. It doesn't looks like a stylistic mediaeval or early renaissance map. It looks like a cartoonish contemporary fantasy map.

Also, like others, I initially thought that the city was scattered by many river canals... I like the idea to render a city build on a terrain far from being flat, but there, I am not sure to understand how this two level terrain might be explained realistically...
adambeyoncelowe wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:39 am
FasterThanJesus wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:09 pm
It's claiming a population of 400,000. I'm thinking that should be 40,000 and an extra 0 has sneaked in.
This may be intentional. There has been a trend towards pushing the population numbers up. Perhaps to have Altdorf at one million or so, when the time comes.
We might imagine that WFRP1 inhabitant numbers represent the number of hearts within the burg, id est intra muros, while the number of inhabitants in WFRP2 and perhaps in WFRP4 might represent the number of inhabitants within the burg and "inner suburbs" (Vorstadt / faubourgs)
Veniam, Duelli Malleum, phantasticum ludum personae uidebo, in fera terra periculosorum aduenturorum ludebam.
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Chuck
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The style doesn’t bother me so much, but the decision to put the buildings on little flat-topped hills with the streets below is odd. I mean, did a group of engineers dig all the streets to a depth of 10 or 20 feet from the otherwise flat top of the Fauschlag? Is this explained in the text? I read Warhammer City a long time ago, so I may have missed this. I only skimmed through Ashes of Middenheim. Is this the way the city was always described, or is it a new development?

Also, this is where we start really missing the input of Andy Law, who parted ways with C7 a while back. I’m not sure his cartography skills can be replaced.
adambeyoncelowe
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Though there is an Andy Law, 2e-era Middenheim map on the wiki. It's also decent resolution. Though the locations may not match up perfectly for new additions, it would work better for VTT.
FasterThanJesus
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A new revision of the PDF is now posted. The 400,000 figure for the population is indeed a typo with an extra zero.
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