Eye for an Eye 4E conversion

The enemy lurks in shadows
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Toby Pilling
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Karanthir wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:50 am
Maybe given the general response to 3e among large parts of the community they just don't see it as a particularly worthwhile revenue stream, so not a priority.
I thought the issue with 3e was all about the rule mechanics and 'component creep', rather than the scenarios. The adventures I've read are just as good as other editions and they had some great writers - Dave Allen, Graeme Davis and Clive Oldfield from this parish, amongst others.
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Orin J.
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Toby Pilling wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:36 am
Karanthir wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:50 am
Maybe given the general response to 3e among large parts of the community they just don't see it as a particularly worthwhile revenue stream, so not a priority.
I thought the issue with 3e was all about the rule mechanics and 'component creep', rather than the scenarios. The adventures I've read are just as good as other editions and they had some great writers - Dave Allen, Graeme Davis and Clive Oldfield from this parish, amongst others.
the weird gimmicks are pretty deeply interlaced with the adventures. you can pull them out and rewrite them sure, but given how long enemy within is taking them to get through it's probably not high on their list of priorities to start another project that needs their limited editorial and proofreading staff.
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Karanthir
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Toby Pilling wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:36 am
I thought the issue with 3e was all about the rule mechanics and 'component creep', rather than the scenarios. The adventures I've read are just as good as other editions and they had some great writers - Dave Allen, Graeme Davis and Clive Oldfield from this parish, amongst others.
You're almost certainly right, so I'm not going to disagree with you as such. However, general reviews/comments on 3e seem to fall into the two categories of either disliking the mechanical elements (rules, components etc.) or defending them. From what I've seen (so take this as circumstantial if you like), the people in the former camp - during the time of 3e's publication - weren't rushing to praise the adventures, while people in the latter group seem to have mixed opinions on the adventures: only fair given that 3e is as much a mixed bag as any other edition in this regard, and people's opinions on what makes a good adventure vary wildly. People who didn't like and/or didn't play 3e seem to be coming round to the idea that it had some good adventures, but I feel like that's a recent development (again, perception means I might be wrong about that).

But the main point, I think, is that if you're a publisher working on the new edition of a game while also re-releasing material from previous editions, what are you going to focus on: the widely beloved first two editions, or the widely reviled (in whatever aspect) third edition? Especially when your new edition is mechanically similar to the first two, but has little in common with the third.

I'm not saying C7's decision is right or wrong, I'm just trying to see it from their perspective. I'm a self-proclaimed 3e "fan-boy", so of course I'd like to see them make the materials for it available again to maybe make people more aware of it (even if it's only to foster a community of converters). At the same time, though, I understand why they haven't done it yet.
Orin J. wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:19 am
the weird gimmicks are pretty deeply interlaced with the adventures. you can pull them out and rewrite them sure, but given how long enemy within is taking them to get through it's probably not high on their list of priorities to start another project that needs their limited editorial and proofreading staff.
I'm not sure how fair this is, given that the mechanics of a game are usually part of how an adventure is written for it. I always felt that the mechanical elements intruded less in 3e adventures than in other editions, but I'd need to read some adventures from the different editions side by side to back up that supposition. And I'm willing to concede that it's wrong even without doing so! Anyway, I'm not the expert here. I've been told by a discord user that converting from 3e to 4e isn't too difficult. I suppose skerrigan would be the person here to ask.
Last edited by Karanthir on Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
adambeyoncelowe
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I think it's relatively easy to convert 3e to 4e. Multiply stats by 10, as a general rule, the nudge them +/-10 or so, as needed.

Things like the trackers are essentially either ways to count SLs on an Extended Test, or ways to measure time (but see RNHD for a very easy example of how a timeline can be managed in 4e).
NickM
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I found (somehow) your Eye for an Eye conversion. I played some 1e and 2e and discounted 3e entirely so was very pleasantly surprised to see how good the adventure was. I ran my little 2 person online group through it and had a great time with it so thanks very much for your hard work. The only issue I had was that a couple of the directions in the text suggested a different direction to the maps (or at least that's my memory) and the kennels are missing from the handout 2 player map. But as I say, it was a great time had by all concerned.
adambeyoncelowe
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3e has some really good adventures.
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Hyarion
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Karanthir wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:08 am
the people in the former camp ((Disliking the mechanical elements -Hyarion)) - during the time of 3e's publication - weren't rushing to praise the adventures,
Because 2e was published in book format, I was able to go to a local shop and flip through a book and see if it was any good and then (usually) buy it.

With 3e being released in shrink wrapped boxes (presumably to provide a single vessel to hold all the tokens, cardboard punch sheets, and adventure booklet), it was impossible to get a sense of the adventure without first purchasing the whole bundle which I wasn't too keen on buying it sight unseen.

I'm not looking to pirate a bunch of PDF's and with 3e being out of print, a project like this is really the only way I'll be able to have access to 3e adventures (with the exception of ebay, and that leads me back to buying the adventure sight unseen).
I hold the glaive of Law against the Earth.
adambeyoncelowe
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Some of the 3e adventures are really cheap on eBay and worth it anyway, IMO. You can use the tokens for Advantage, the stand-ups for combats and the various cards can make nice suggestions for spicing up your actions if you ever get stuck.

The social action cards can be particularly useful for non-social players who nevertheless want their PCs to do social things.

You just have to wing the rules a bit (it's easy enough to, e.g., say one hammer = +1 SL and Comets and Chaos Stars equal doubles).
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Karanthir
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Hyarion wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:38 pm
Because 2e was published in book format, I was able to go to a local shop and flip through a book and see if it was any good and then (usually) buy it.

With 3e being released in shrink wrapped boxes (presumably to provide a single vessel to hold all the tokens, cardboard punch sheets, and adventure booklet), it was impossible to get a sense of the adventure without first purchasing the whole bundle which I wasn't too keen on buying it sight unseen.

I'm not looking to pirate a bunch of PDF's and with 3e being out of print, a project like this is really the only way I'll be able to have access to 3e adventures (with the exception of ebay, and that leads me back to buying the adventure sight unseen).
I wasn't trying to target anyone with my comments, so apologies if it came across that way. I was just making some very generalised observations. I totally get your point about not wanting to buy a product without seeing the book first, especially if you weren't interested in all the gubbins.

I know buying online doesn't help with being able to see the adventure first, but honestly, with things the way they are in the world at the moment, going to a bricks and mortar shop and flicking through a book might not be advisable anyway ;) . To add to adambeyoncelowe's point and be a bit more serious though, if you're really against acquiring the components (and I can see why you would be), you can often find the books alone for even cheaper than in the boxes.
FasterThanJesus
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Karanthir wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:08 am
I'm not sure how fair this is, given that the mechanics of a game are usually part of how an adventure is written for it. I always felt that the mechanical elements intruded less in 3e adventures than in other editions, but I'd need to read some adventures from the different editions side by side to back up that supposition. And I'm willing to concede that it's wrong even without doing so! Anyway, I'm not the expert here. I've been told by a discord user that converting from 3e to 4e is too difficult. I suppose skerrigan would be the person here to ask.
Interestingly, Cubicle 7 recently released a free PDF guide to convert between editions. It included 1st, 2nd and 4th, but not 3rd. This might suggest they think the same, or at the very least feel that their time can be more efficiently spent elsewhere. I've skimmed through a couple of adventures recently and just started reading through TEW 3rd ed and think the adventures are certainly adequate enough for conversion. It's possible they'll move on when they've finished converting everythong from 1st and 2nd edition...
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Karanthir
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FasterThanJesus wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:06 am
Interestingly, Cubicle 7 recently released a free PDF guide to convert between editions. It included 1st, 2nd and 4th, but not 3rd. This might suggest they think the same, or at the very least feel that their time can be more efficiently spent elsewhere. I've skimmed through a couple of adventures recently and just started reading through TEW 3rd ed and think the adventures are certainly adequate enough for conversion. It's possible they'll move on when they've finished converting everythong from 1st and 2nd edition...
Well, you made me aware of a typo in that post which completely changes it: I meant to say I'd been told that converting from 3rd to 4th isn't too difficult! Oh well...

I was aware of the conversion guide, but as a 3e player it isn't much use to me so I haven't looked at it. Nice idea though.

There is an oddity with WFRP editions that if they go chronologically in-universe, it would actually make sense for them to convert the 3e adventures before those from 2e. I'm not sure how likely that is, but Lord of Ubersreik in Rough Nights and Hard Days being a partial 3e conversion keeps some hope alive!
FasterThanJesus
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Karanthir wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:09 am
FasterThanJesus wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:06 am
Interestingly, Cubicle 7 recently released a free PDF guide to convert between editions. It included 1st, 2nd and 4th, but not 3rd. This might suggest they think the same, or at the very least feel that their time can be more efficiently spent elsewhere. I've skimmed through a couple of adventures recently and just started reading through TEW 3rd ed and think the adventures are certainly adequate enough for conversion. It's possible they'll move on when they've finished converting everythong from 1st and 2nd edition...
Well, you made me aware of a typo in that post which completely changes it: I meant to say I'd been told that converting from 3rd to 4th isn't too difficult! Oh well...

I was aware of the conversion guide, but as a 3e player it isn't much use to me so I haven't looked at it. Nice idea though.

There is an oddity with WFRP editions that if they go chronologically in-universe, it would actually make sense for them to convert the 3e adventures before those from 2e. I'm not sure how likely that is, but Lord of Ubersreik in Rough Nights and Hard Days being a partial 3e conversion keeps some hope alive!
It's a bit of a shame that 3rd edition wasn't included in the guide, given its bi-directional nature it could make converting from 4th to 3rd easier and give a little more incentive to 3rd ed players to purchase the new content (TEW 4th/Ubersreik). There could be a few more sales and more voices/less disconnect in the community. Maybe.

It could be that if they get to conveting from 3rd, we'll get a separate/updated conversion document then. I'd be all for it as more content is a good thing and it's easy enough to ignore things that are of no interest.
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Karanthir
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Completely agree!
adambeyoncelowe
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Karanthir wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:36 am
Hyarion wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:38 pm
Because 2e was published in book format, I was able to go to a local shop and flip through a book and see if it was any good and then (usually) buy it.

With 3e being released in shrink wrapped boxes (presumably to provide a single vessel to hold all the tokens, cardboard punch sheets, and adventure booklet), it was impossible to get a sense of the adventure without first purchasing the whole bundle which I wasn't too keen on buying it sight unseen.

I'm not looking to pirate a bunch of PDF's and with 3e being out of print, a project like this is really the only way I'll be able to have access to 3e adventures (with the exception of ebay, and that leads me back to buying the adventure sight unseen).
I wasn't trying to target anyone with my comments, so apologies if it came across that way. I was just making some very generalised observations. I totally get your point about not wanting to buy a product without seeing the book first, especially if you weren't interested in all the gubbins.

I know buying online doesn't help with being able to see the adventure first, but honestly, with things the way they are in the world at the moment, going to a bricks and mortar shop and flicking through a book might not be advisable anyway ;) . To add to adambeyoncelowe's point and be a bit more serious though, if you're really against acquiring the components (and I can see why you would be), you can often find the books alone for even cheaper than in the boxes.
Yeah, Noble Knight Games sells a lot of the books on their own.
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Karanthir
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Well look at that, another 3e adventure (albeit fan-written) reworked for 4e!
https://www.cubicle7games.com/wfrp-the- ... f-release/

(I'm sure it deserves its own thread, but it seemed relevant to the discussion here.)
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skerrigan
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I think that's a new scenario unless ibam missing something.
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Gideon
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skerrigan wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:54 pm
I think that's a new scenario unless ibam missing something.
As Karanthir said, it's a conversion of a fan-made WFRP3 scenario:

http://www.chumley.co.uk/wfrp/ghostofmondstille.pdf
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Toby Pilling
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I believe Dave Allen has now been taken on by Cubicle 7 as a more permanent employee than just a freelancer. Hopefully that means we may see more 3rd edition stuff converted. - Clive's adventure may be just the beginning!
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Karanthir
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Here's hoping!
MadMarkus
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Skerrigan, love the layout on the adventures! Somebody has already asked but I haven't noticed an answer: what DTP templates have you used for them? Are there any official ones (I haven't found any) or have you prepared them yourself? Would you mind sharing them? :roll: I have some fan translations for my players which I'd love to set in that layout. Thanks!
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