Enemy Within Updates (plus other stuff)

The enemy lurks in shadows
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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FasterThanJesus wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:07 am
totsuzenheni wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:59 am
Has much changed in Cubicle 7's edtion do you think? Incidentally, there was a entire paragraph repeated in the Hogshead edtion in that section on the Purple Hand.
Overall very little has changed. The adventure layout, mentioned in the other thread on the topic, is different and IMO a big improvement. For example, the signal tower appears in the text before the barren hills section as opposed to the other way around. The trainers, most notably the wizard, is now added as appendix item to be used ag GM's discretion/need. The first half of Carrion up the Reik follows directly from the destruction of Castle Wittgenstein. There are parts that are verbatim copies, the money/treasure being one I've already mentioned. I actually think that was a little lazy, but I'm wondering if the thinking is that it's not too relevant as the GM can toast most of it in CutR. Like EiS, there are a quite a few Grognard boxes with alternative approaches to handling some sections, which is really where most of the new content comes in.

My main gripe, along with EiS, is that there isn't enough guidance on where things are going later on in the campaign. I had intended to start a thread where could guess, or extrapolate, what's going to be in The Horned Rat and Empire in Chaos, but there's still little to go on. The Horned Rat takes place in the Grey Mountains and apparently it's events could leave The Empire in disarray (this being an option for handling players who absolutely insist being river traders for the rest of their days), but I've gleaned little else.
I'm putting off buying Cubicle 7's Death on the Reik, which is not what i thought i'd be doing when they announced a fourth edition of The Enemy Within. I'll wait and see what people think of the Death on the Reik Companion, and i might buy that before buying Death on the Reik itself. (I have the first edition of Death on the Reik.) Overall, i think i would have liked to have seen a more thorough reworking of the original material dealing with its many issues.
FasterThanJesus
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totsuzenheni wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:13 am
I'm putting off buying Cubicle 7's Death on the Reik, which is not what i thought i'd be doing when they announced a fourth edition of The Enemy Within. I'll wait and see what people think of the Death on the Reik Companion, and i might buy that before buying Death on the Reik itself. (I have the first edition of Death on the Reik.) Overall, i think i would have liked to have seen a more thorough reworking of the original material dealing with its many issues.
Interesting you say that, but I always thought it to be the part with the least issues. Of course, that was just our experience.
Zisse
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I agree, DotR did not need a big change from my perspective. I like that they added the Carrion on the reik stuff, because I own the pre Hogshead TEW books. I repeat myself, but in the end the success of WFRP 4 for me is absolutely depending on TEW 4+5.

And, did I say that I am missing the illustration with the cultists' gestures?
Last edited by Zisse on Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
FasterThanJesus
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Zisse wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:21 am
I agree, DotR did not need a big change from my perspective. I like that they added the Carrion on the reik stuff, because I own the pre Hogshead TEW books. I repeat myself, but in the end the success of WFRP 4 for me is absolutely depending on TEW 4+5.

And, did I say that I a missing the illustration with the cultists' gestures?
The gestures are the most important part of TEW. Maybe we should both raise it on the errata and spam their twitter and facebook pages. Possibly add a few 1 star reviews on drive through RPG.
Zisse
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Before we do that I need to make sure that I know all the facts. Is page 6 of the original DotR the only one with such pictures? I thought there were more, but it may just be the imagination from the good old days....

Apart from this particular illustration, I am happy, for any newly depicted scene, so I can pool the pictures from both editions.
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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Zisse wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:59 am
Is page 6 of the original DotR the only one with such pictures?
Only p. 6 in the Hogshead edition that i can see.
FasterThanJesus
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Zisse wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:59 am
Before we do that I need to make sure that I know all the facts. Is page 6 of the original DotR the only one with such pictures? I thought there were more, but it may just be the imagination from the good old days....

Apart from this particular illustration, I am happy, for any newly depicted scene, so I can pool the pictures from both editions.
I thought it also appeared in The Enemy Within, I checked my copy that I er, borrowed and never gave back to a relative (sorry), and was proved once again that my memory is shot.
FasterThanJesus
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Dev Diary out today.

It contains a very nice introduction to Power Behind the Throne's backstory and covers some of the changes to expect:
  • Content is reordered for readability, similar to DotR
  • The ending is rewritten back to the original to flow directly to The Horned Rat
  • The Companion will contain Grapes of Wrath and follows on from the DotR Companion's B-plot
  • Mark Gascoigne tribute to Carl Sergant*
  • The Companion will contain some content from Warhammer City, but most of that content will be in the new City of the White Wolf
There are two extra bits. The first is a section detailing Dieter Helsnicht (of WFB fame) along with stats and background. This has no context, but I'm going out on a limb and suggesting he's at least linked to the Grave Lord B-plot starting in the DotR Companion.

There is a section from the DotR Companion with brief descriptions for Naiads and Amoebae.

*Not of importance to the plot obviously, but this is good to see.
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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FasterThanJesus wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:56 pm
[*]The ending is rewritten back to the original to flow directly to The Horned Rat
The original ending being a previously unpublished ending?
FasterThanJesus
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totsuzenheni wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:12 pm
The original ending being a previously unpublished ending?
I believe so. The explanation was the original ending was hastily rewritten because The Horned Rat was dropped and SRiK was still being written, hence it was very abrupt.

Of course, I don't know how different the ending we got in PBtT was from the original, as it may have been very similar up to the point where you get chucked in a cell and told "right, your Knights Panther now, bugger off to Kislev."
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Gideon
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FasterThanJesus wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:26 pm
totsuzenheni wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:12 pm
The original ending being a previously unpublished ending?
I believe so. The explanation was the original ending was hastily rewritten because The Horned Rat was dropped and SRiK was still being written, hence it was very abrupt.

Of course, I don't know how different the ending we got in PBtT was from the original, as it may have been very similar up to the point where you get chucked in a cell and told "right, your Knights Panther now, bugger off to Kislev."
This was discussed on my blog by Derrick Norton, who wrote the ending of the published PBT. The original draft version ended with an audience with the Graf and the repeal of the taxes. There was no attempt to replace the Graf with a doppelganger or showdown with Karl-Heniz Wasmeier. Norton added these elements to create a better climax.

See these posts, especially the second:

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... nce-grise/

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... il-genius/

As far as I know, the original Horned Rat never went beyond a brief outline, and there never existed an ending to PBT that linked to it.

If the new ending links to The Horned Rat, it is very probably new material, not the restoration of original material.
Zisse
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Wow, I thought I read all the posts in your Blog, but it seems I was wrong.

Derrick's post is a great insight and your discussion just underlines that the key to the success of the director's cut of TEW is in parts 4+5. PbtT will give use some hindsight on how much Greame and C7 will tie the plots together.
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Gideon
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Yes, Derrick shared some fantastic insights into the campaign. My favourite was his discussion of Empire in Flames, including original draft material:

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... -part-one/

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... -part-two/

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... art-three/
Zisse
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Again wow! So if Empire in ruins is supposed to tie together loose ends, PbtT has to provide some additional ones.
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Gideon
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Zisse wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:00 am
Wow, I thought I read all the posts in your Blog, but it seems I was wrong.
The best way to avoid missing them is to read them all from the beginning... :lol:

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... llo-world/
FasterThanJesus
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Gideon wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:06 pm

This was discussed on my blog by Derrick Norton, who wrote the ending of the published PBT. The original draft version ended with an audience with the Graf and the repeal of the taxes. There was no attempt to replace the Graf with a doppelganger or showdown with Karl-Heniz Wasmeier. Norton added these elements to create a better climax.

See these posts, especially the second:

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... nce-grise/

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... il-genius/

As far as I know, the original Horned Rat never went beyond a brief outline, and there never existed an ending to PBT that linked to it.

If the new ending links to The Horned Rat, it is very probably new material, not the restoration of original material.
Ah, I remember reading that in your blog now, but forgot the details.

I'm a little reluctant to drop too much from the diaries into these posts, but in this case, what the hell:

"To return to Power Behind the Throne, I also needed to do some work on the ending. It was rather abrupt in
the original, not giving the Characters a clear path forward into the rest of the campaign. At the time, there was
a very good reason for this: the rest of the campaign was in flux. When Power Behind the Throne was released,
The Horned Rat — which was to have been next, according to the original plan — had been dropped in favour of
Ken Rolston’s Something Rotten in Kislev. That was still being written, and not enough was known about it to build
substantial links into Power Behind the Throne.

This time, knowing that The Horned Rat would be next in the Director’s Cut and having already prepared a
detailed plan for Games Workshop’s approval, the path was clearer and the ending could be made much more
satisfactory. In fact, it is scarcely an ending at all, moving seamlessly into the start of The Horned Rat as. . . well,
you’ll have to wait and see!"
FasterThanJesus
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Gideon wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:31 am
Zisse wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:00 am
Wow, I thought I read all the posts in your Blog, but it seems I was wrong.
The best way to avoid missing them is to read them all from the beginning... :lol:

https://awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2 ... llo-world/
I went through one or two blog posts a day after discovering them. They're great, and it's something to do at work ;)
FasterThanJesus
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FYI - The companion is now available for download.
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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I'd be very interested to know what people think of that. I've been putting off ordering DotR and its Companion.
FasterThanJesus
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totsuzenheni wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:09 pm
I'd be very interested to know what people think of that. I've been putting off ordering DotR and its Companion.
A quick chapter list with page count (rough - I've just copied the headings from the ToC):

PREFACE 1 and GUEST COMMENTARIES 3 (Includes James Wallis justifying sinking your boat)
CHAPTER 1: EASTER EGGS 2
CHAPTER 2: HERBS AND THEIR USES 8 (was previewed in the last dev diary)
CHAPTER 3: DELETED SCENES 6
CHAPTER 4: THE EMPIRE'S RIVERS 5
CHAPTER 5: RIVER NAVIGATION 6
CHAPTER 6: THE IMPERIAL RIVER 4
CHAPTER 7: FELLOW TRAVELLERS 12
CHAPTER 8: RIVER FOLK 11
CHAPTER 9: THE IMPERIAL SEMAPHORE SERVICE 3
CHAPTER 10: DECK IT OUT 6
CHAPTER 11: TRADING RULES 3
CHAPTER 12: WRECKERS, SMUGGLERS & PIRATES 6
CHAPTER 13: A RIVER BESTIARY 5
CHAPTER 14: WATERBORNE DISEASES 3
CHAPTER 15: THE RED CROWN 4
CHAPTER 16: THE EMPEROR LUITPOLD 12
CHAPTER 17: VENGANCE OF THE GRAVELORD 12

I've not read much yet, but the very high level overview would be, this is to rivers and river travel as what the EiS Companion is to roads and road travel.

They did pull one asshole move. I tend to print these out as I don't like reading this kind of document on my e-read and rather wouldn't read them on my monitor (which I stare at enough of the day anyway) and after checking the final page for the print, noticed it was a handout, so printed the whole lot, only to discover they left the adverts on the previous pages, which I normally trim out of the print. Cubicle 7 owe me two pages worth of ink!
Last edited by FasterThanJesus on Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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