Enemy Within Updates (plus other stuff)

The enemy lurks in shadows
FasterThanJesus
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Another production update has just dropped:

https://www.cubicle7games.com/wfrp-prod ... ns-reveal/

What looks interesting to me is that the companion is seemingly taking on the role of providing ending material for the purple hand and red crown. I like the look of all four of the covers.
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Chuck
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“Regrettably, the scribes involved in collating the final document for The Imperial Zoo were mauled by a Griffon — as such it has moved to Q4 for release in PDF.”

Love it
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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I wonder if they'll do a companion to the fourth edition Empire In Ruins as well as the companion they're doing to the first edition Empire In Flames.
FasterThanJesus
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:16 pm
I wonder if they'll do a companion to the fourth edition Empire In Ruins as well as the companion they're doing to the first edition Empire In Flames.
Did I miss something in there?
FasterThanJesus
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Empire in Ruins has just landed. I have one immediate impression: we now, finally, have a full map of the Empire!

Edit: second impressions - there's a lot going on, this is somewhat different to Empire in Flames. This is longer than previous entries at 208 pages. Gideon is back! Ghal Maraz is not quite as munchkin as 1st ed. There's an index, so the other Gideon will be happy (and me, tbh).
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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FasterThanJesus wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:33 am
Totsuzenheni Yukimi wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:16 pm
I wonder if they'll do a companion to the fourth edition Empire In Ruins as well as the companion they're doing to the first edition Empire In Flames.
Did I miss something in there?
I read the tag line at the bottom of the companion and thought that Cubicle 7 had mistitled the Companion.
FasterThanJesus
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:24 am
I read the tag line at the bottom of the companion and thought that Cubicle 7 had mistitled the Companion.
Ah, I see how that could happen. They're obviously trying to wink to the first edition book but that could cause some confusion - looking at comments on drivethrurpg for the other books in this series, they've caused enough already.
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So what are people's first impressions of the new ending? I've not got it yet, but obviously I'm intrigued.
FasterThanJesus
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I'm a bit behind right now, so I've only skimmed it. The plot is structurally very similar to the original while being a significant reimagining and expansion. The opening act (up to the assassination) incorporates a lot more court intrigue and builds on the politics of sigmarite vs ulrican and the Nordland/Ostland separatist stuff. This whole section is about 60 pages/6 chapters in length and appears to go into a lot more detail on the political ramifications of the assassination.

The second act artfully reprises the old "wanted bold adventurers" and begins the quest to retrieve gal maraz. This is no longer a journey to a Dwarf Hold, whose name escapes me, but one to Black Fire Pass. It has a touch of Death on the Reik river travel to it (probably a cunning way to reuse some of those mechanics added to the DoTR Companion). Black Fire Pass introduces some exploration and gobbos to fight (and some gobbo magic). It ends in a descent in a Chaos infested gorge to get the hammer. The return journey deals with some outstanding politics and beastmen (I didn't onboard much of this while archiving). This is about 70 pages and 5 chapters.
The final act, the closing act of the campaign sees the return of some old friends (because some TEW tropes just need to happen!) Gideon is putting together his final plans and Altdorf is a mess. The characters need to investigate (obviously, no one else in the Empire has any agency). It still ends with She-Ra* as the big bad but with stats and consequences based upon the outcome of various other sections of the TEW campaign. The characters win, or not. If they do, they get a bunch of boons from the Emperor including land, titles and money but interstingly, they're not forcibly retired - the characters actually get 2 fate points in the best outcome. This is about 20 pages and just the one chapter.

The structure of the book is a little like PBtT and THR where it has a substatial overview of the plot and then the important NPC list at the beginning. One major item of note is that the story of Sigmar and Karl Franz is retconned - ostensibly the original Gal Maraz was lost in Black Fire pass and a replica has been in use since - I'm fairly amazed by this, not necessarily that the retcon was conceived but that it's presumably passed GW oversight. My view of the retcon is that it's not great but the options are limited if you want to stay true to the original Empire in Flames and drag it back inline with contemporary Warhammer. How this meshes with Warhammer: The Old World will be intersting to see.
A lot of background related to the activities of the Purple Hand and Gideon is covered and how they relate to the present disunity of the Empire. We've been clamouring for this since 1st edition and also complaining about a lack of explanation as to where TEW is going in the earlier editions. Those questions appear to be answered and in principle I like it but I must emphasize I have not read much in detail as I already mentioned. All of this is probably about 30 or 40 pages long.

Without a proper read, I think this is a vastly superior Empire in Flames. Whether it ticks every box will be subjective and whether it is the finale we feel the series deserves will not really be known till its played out on various tabletops within the community but I honestly think from my skim read, this puts the ending of TEW in a far better place than it was before.

*real name beyond my reading and writing age.
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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That it's still essentially Empire In Flames is curious.
dry_erase
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:13 am
That it's still essentially Empire In Flames is curious.
It's not really
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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dry_erase wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:38 am
Totsuzenheni Yukimi wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:13 am
That it's still essentially Empire In Flames is curious.
It's not really
I find it curious given the alternatives that have been proposed by both official custodians and fans to Empire In Flames and given that Empire In Flames wasn't part of the original design for The Enemy Within Campaign, though i might be misremembering that last part, and i'm not sure there was a final part that was part of the original design for The Enemy Within Campaign.
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Chuck
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Something Rotten in Kislev wasn't meant to be part of TEW but for marketing purposes it was shoehorned in. IIRC, Empire in Flames was hastily ordered and put together with the express purpose of closing the TEW campaign before GW rolled everything over to Flame.
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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Chuck wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:07 pm
Something Rotten in Kislev wasn't meant to be part of TEW but for marketing purposes it was shoehorned in. IIRC, Empire in Flames was hastily ordered and put together with the express purpose of closing the TEW campaign before GW rolled everything over to Flame.
That's what i understood to be the case, though i got the idea somewhere, perhaps by (mis)implication, that Empire In Flames was also, to a lesser extent, shoehorned in.
dry_erase
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:58 am
dry_erase wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:38 am
Totsuzenheni Yukimi wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:13 am
That it's still essentially Empire In Flames is curious.
It's not really
I find it curious given the alternatives that have been proposed by both official custodians and fans to Empire In Flames and given that Empire In Flames wasn't part of the original design for The Enemy Within Campaign, though i might be misremembering that last part, and i'm not sure there was a final part that was part of the original design for The Enemy Within Campaign.
EIR shares some connective tissue and DNA with Empire In Flames, but it's a new scenario in terms of how it pans out - all the content has been written from scratch and there's a great deal relating it back to earlier parts of the campaign. So I wouldn't say it's "essentially Empire In Flames".

My understanding is in line with what Chuck said - Empire In Flames was rushed through to finish the campaign, which is why it doesn't tie up or link with most of the existing plotlines.
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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dry_erase wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:58 pm
Totsuzenheni Yukimi wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:58 am
dry_erase wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:38 am


It's not really
I find it curious given the alternatives that have been proposed by both official custodians and fans to Empire In Flames and given that Empire In Flames wasn't part of the original design for The Enemy Within Campaign, though i might be misremembering that last part, and i'm not sure there was a final part that was part of the original design for The Enemy Within Campaign.
EIR shares some connective tissue and DNA with Empire In Flames, but it's a new scenario in terms of how it pans out - all the content has been written from scratch and there's a great deal relating it back to earlier parts of the campaign. So I wouldn't say it's "essentially Empire In Flames".
I think i misunderstood before. If i now understand correctly you meant that it's not really essentially Empire In Flames (rather than it's not really curious). That Empire In Ruins is essentially Empire In Flames was what i took from FastThanJesus's comment earlier, though i suppose i could have been more careful with my wording. (I haven't read Empire In Ruins yet.)
Last edited by Totsuzenheni Yukimi on Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FasterThanJesus
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"Structurally" it is similar: Assassination->Quest for Hammer->Kill Daemon, save Empire - that is boiling it down to its most basic elements. However, those elements are very different, the assassination phase has a much bigger lead in incorporating the plot hooks from the earlier installments. The quest for the hammer and return journey is different, and not just the locale and adversaries. The ending contains a bit more of a lead in, too (also provides 4 or 5 different potential endings).

One of my first reactions to it, and not just purely by the page count, this does feel to be a sizeable chunk larger than EiF, at the very least.
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Totsuzenheni Yukimi
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I noticed that it was £5 more expensive on the Cubicle 7 website than the other volumes.
FasterThanJesus
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I hadn't noticed that. That's about 1% of my CE preorder saved then!
dry_erase
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FasterThanJesus wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:05 pm
"Structurally" it is similar: Assassination->Quest for Hammer->Kill Daemon, save Empire - that is boiling it down to its most basic elements. However, those elements are very different, the assassination phase has a much bigger lead in incorporating the plot hooks from the earlier installments. The quest for the hammer and return journey is different, and not just the locale and adversaries. The ending contains a bit more of a lead in, too (also provides 4 or 5 different potential endings).
I think that's a very accurate description. The big plot points are similar, but everything else is new.
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