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Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:16 am
by Karanthir
Glad to see I'm not the only one bothered by the lack of start date, even if it is a minor detail. If I'm feeling generous I assume it's to allow groups to slot the start of EiS onto their existing campaign without being beholden to a certain date. But then it's clear from other parts that certain events take place at specific times of the year, which makes it seem like an oversight. Maybe it'll be mentioned in the Companion.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:20 am
by totsuzenheni
LOL. Enemy In Shadows Companion... Don't start your campaign without it!

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:30 am
by totsuzenheni
BTW all, i did let Cubicle 7 know about an error in the PDF and the did write back to say it would be rectified, so if you do spot any errors or omissions i think it would be worth letting them know.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:32 am
by FasterThanJesus
It will be more important as the campaign goes on, too. Death on the Reik is a sprawling monster (well, campaign in it's own right) and the final 3 parts need quite a bit of timing.

All it really takes is a recommended start date that can fit into the existing material as the default of the setting.

Could be worth mentioning on drivethrurpg in the discussion section. I note that there is mention of travelling cost for starter characters already on there.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:33 am
by FasterThanJesus
totsuzenheni wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:30 am
BTW all, i did let Cubicle 7 know about an error in the PDF and the did write back to say it would be rectified, so if you do spot any errors or omissions i think it would be worth letting them know.
I followed the posted link to an errata page that I've used a couple of times. What method did you use?

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:37 am
by totsuzenheni
FasterThanJesus wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:33 am
totsuzenheni wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:30 am
BTW all, i did let Cubicle 7 know about an error in the PDF and the did write back to say it would be rectified, so if you do spot any errors or omissions i think it would be worth letting them know.
I followed the posted link to an errata page that I've used a couple of times. What method did you use?
I emailed them.

I emailed them again today and they asked if i could put it on the google document (which i wasn't aware of previously). I guess that's what you're referring to @FasterThanJesus. It is here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... g/viewform .

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:47 am
by Karanthir
Ok, that form isn't perfect for omissions (as opposed to typos or errors), but I have submitted a suggestion for a start date to be provided in the "Starting the Adventure" paragraph on page 11. That seemed like the most sensible place for it.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:34 am
by FasterThanJesus
totsuzenheni wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:37 am
I emailed them.

I emailed them again today and they asked if i could put it on the google document (which i wasn't aware of previously). I guess that's what you're referring to @FasterThanJesus. It is here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... g/viewform .
Yes, that's the one.
Karanthir wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:47 am
Ok, that form isn't perfect for omissions (as opposed to typos or errors), but I have submitted a suggestion for a start date to be provided in the "Starting the Adventure" paragraph on page 11. That seemed like the most sensible place for it.
I think I'll join you and add my voice.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:12 am
by Karanthir
FasterThanJesus wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:34 am
I think I'll join you and add my voice.
The more the merrier! And who knows, they might actually listen...

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:05 am
by macd21
Problem with dates is that you’re supposed to be able to slot other adventures as you like. There’s not much point having a start date as it’ll be different for every campaign.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:00 pm
by totsuzenheni
I don't think that's a problem @macd21. Having a start date given in the campaign doesn't prevent a GM from moving it and gives the GM something to work with.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:36 pm
by macd21
But what would be the point? I don’t see what it adds to the campaign, other than an irritant for all the GMs who have to change the date? If I was writing the campaign, I’d specifically avoid mentioning dates. If I was editing it, I’d be sure to remove them.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:31 pm
by totsuzenheni
The point is to give the GM a structure which they can use and adjust. Why would it irritate a GM if they need to change the date any more than it would it they needed to figure it out and deduce it from the handouts?

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:52 am
by makrellen
I think that a start date is pretty important for GM´s since seasons change and that can affect things like travel (which is a big factor in TEW as far as I remember). So at least you would be aware that if you place the campaign in a different season then you might have to adjust timelines etc. later in the campaign.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:29 am
by Gideon
macd21 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:36 pm
If I was writing the campaign, I’d specifically avoid mentioning dates. If I was editing it, I’d be sure to remove them.
The problem is that there are dates mentioned. The handouts refer to Jahrdrung amd Mitterfruhl, and they only work with the adventure as written if you use a start date of 24 Jahrdrung.

If all dates are removed, there is no problem. Removing some of them while keeping others creates the problem.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:35 am
by Karanthir
macd21 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:05 am
Problem with dates is that you’re supposed to be able to slot other adventures as you like. There’s not much point having a start date as it’ll be different for every campaign.
If you're slotting in other adventures (even if that's recommended in the books), you're already not running the campaign as written. Some campaigns lend themselves easier to being vague about specific timeframes (or being set at any time of year. Others, especially long ones like TEW, can benefit from having these things clarified at the outset. Even if no further dates are provided in the rest of the campaign, at least the GM can track time consistently.

I don't know, for me personally I feel like a start date is easier to ignore if it's provided than figure out if it's not. And this discussion stems from the fact that they included a calendar for the express purpose of tracking the days but gave no starting point to track from - not even a year (unless I missed it), which they were conversely very explicit about in the Guide to Ubersreik, which is supposed to tie into the events of TEW.

Admittedly, it's an optional extra in the appendix. So maybe a better idea than giving the start date in the main body of the campaign would be adding it to where the calendar is, with something like "For groups wanting to track the days, the campaign is intended to start on [Day] [Month] [Year]. GMs may wish to change this date to suit their own ongoing campaigns, or ignore it entirely."

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:19 am
by macd21
Gideon wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:29 am
macd21 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:36 pm
If I was writing the campaign, I’d specifically avoid mentioning dates. If I was editing it, I’d be sure to remove them.
The problem is that there are dates mentioned. The handouts refer to Jahrdrung amd Mitterfruhl, and they only work with the adventure as written if you use a start date of 24 Jahrdrung.

If all dates are removed, there is no problem. Removing some of them while keeping others creates the problem.
Yeah, that is a problem.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:27 am
by macd21
I think it’s better for campaigns not to mention dates at all, unless timing is critical to the plot (set at a certain time of year, or over a specific timespan), which isn’t the case with TEW.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:09 am
by totsuzenheni
macd21 wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:27 am
I think it’s better for campaigns not to mention dates at all, unless timing is critical to the plot (set at a certain time of year, or over a specific timespan), which isn’t the case with TEW.
You could argue that specific dates aren't required, but Enemy In Shadows, especially the Shadows part, does have a schedule. You're not arguing that an explicit schedule / timetable wouldn't be useful are you? I take it you're arguing that the schedule doesn't need to be tied to specific dates. In any case i agree with @Karanthir when they wrote:
Karanthir wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:35 am
I feel like a start date is easier to ignore if it's provided than figure out if it's not.
This:
Karanthir wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:35 am
And this discussion stems from the fact that they included a calendar for the express purpose of tracking the days but gave no starting point to track from - not even a year (unless I missed it), which they were conversely very explicit about in the Guide to Ubersreik, which is supposed to tie into the events of TEW.

Admittedly, it's an optional extra in the appendix. So maybe a better idea than giving the start date in the main body of the campaign would be adding it to where the calendar is, with something like "For groups wanting to track the days, the campaign is intended to start on [Day] [Month] [Year]. GMs may wish to change this date to suit their own ongoing campaigns, or ignore it entirely."
And this of course:
Gideon wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:29 am
The problem is that there are dates mentioned. The handouts refer to Jahrdrung amd Mitterfruhl, and they only work with the adventure as written if you use a start date of 24 Jahrdrung.

Re: Enemy in Shadows: Thoughts and reactions

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:24 pm
by macd21
I can’t see how it’s easier to ignore if provided than to just choose one as appropriate to your campaign. I don’t see the benefit.