Changing Career Level

Cubicle 7 // 2018
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stumondo
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:10 pm

Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:24 pm

I'm currently playing a Wizard in campaign. I've just advanced to level 2 in the career, having fully completed level 1. Level 2 of Wizard however, holds very little interest to me, bar the Arcane Magic and Detect Artefact talents. I was considering taking those, and jumping to level 3 by spending the 200xp to level an incomplete career.

Whereas I don't think there is much interpretation needed, as the book explicitly allows this by it's definition of Changing Career at the bottom of page 48 (there's even an example), some of the players I game with have said they have seen game designers say this isn't allowed. Can anyone help shed some light on this for me. Thanks
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Orin J.
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:39 pm

Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:18 pm

the designers don't get to overrule the printed material if your GM allows it. anything they say they "intended" after the printed material is out is just scuttlebutt. discuss it with the GM and if the other players want to bitch then let 'em cry.

that said, instictive diction is handy and magical sense is a good way to hook plots. also it's possible for you to just get the new job change for 100xp if there's a good story reason for it (say, the collage requiring you to stand in as the master wizard of a town whose resident battlemage has gone.....missing and fast-tracking you a bit for political purposes since you're there already)
Jareth Valar
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:16 pm

Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:00 am

The basic rule is you have to have all your characteristics of the current level bought up to 10 advances, 1 talent from level 2 and any 8 of the 14 possible skills (8 from level 1 and an additional 6 from level 2) bought up to 10 advances. That's what's "RAW" is needed to advance to Wizard level 3.

Now, as for the example, it specifically says "With GM permission, you may skip Career Levels. This is normally driven by in-game events." and the example given is about someone being granted a noble title. This, to me is really the key. In the example the GM "offers" the player the ability to buy into Noble level 2. It's an in-story change, not a purely mechanical one. So in that, I believe the other players are correct.

Personally, just "not feeling" several things from a career level wouldn't be justification enough for me as a GM to allow it.
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Orin J.
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:39 pm

Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:00 am

He could also do it via the changing careers endeavor Jareth, which IS a purely mechanical one that just requires the GM to agree to it. i concede that the way 4th handles it's progressions system is inconsistent and sloppy, but it's based around letting the players do what they want, and OP wants to skip.
Jareth Valar
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:16 pm

Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:04 pm

Fair enough, forgot the endeavors. However as you said, if the GM approves though.

IMHO skipping a level should always be a story reason, never a "do I really have to slog through Sergeant? It's so boring, I want to go straight to Captain!"

Now the OP may have actual story reasons, but from what was offered, as a GM, personally I'd say no.
CapnZapp
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:15 am
Location: Norsca

Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:34 am

stumondo wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:24 pm
I'm currently playing a Wizard in campaign. I've just advanced to level 2 in the career, having fully completed level 1. Level 2 of Wizard however, holds very little interest to me, bar the Arcane Magic and Detect Artefact talents. I was considering taking those, and jumping to level 3 by spending the 200xp to level an incomplete career.

Whereas I don't think there is much interpretation needed, as the book explicitly allows this by it's definition of Changing Career at the bottom of page 48 (there's even an example), some of the players I game with have said they have seen game designers say this isn't allowed. Can anyone help shed some light on this for me. Thanks
Hello and welcome to the forums.

Edit to add: my reply become long and somewhat involved. I've listed the information directly relating to your specific case in bold below.

You can't just "skip ahead", not without the GM's permission.

You can leave an incompleted career in the manner you list, but without the GM's approval, only to the first level of the new Career.

I know the rules on page 48 (left-hand column, last paragraph) seem to say otherwise - opening up the completely free choice between 1) and 2), "Moving to a different level within your current Career" and "Moving to an entirely new Career", respectively; giving the appearance you're free to move directly from Wizard's Apprentice (level 1) to Wizard's Lord (level 4), but this is only if you don't keep reading carefully. Yes, the rules come across as unorganized and imprecise in places, but in this case I refer to "Changing to a New Level" (also on page 48): Note how it takes the preceding statement"Moving to a different level within your current Career" and qualifies it: "If you have completed your current Career level, you can enter the next Career level, or any lower Career level, for 100 XP". Furthermore, on the next page, it says "With GM permission, you can also skip Career levels."

From this we read two things, if you're interested in changing to a higher level of your current career:
a) you need to have completed your current career
b) you can only proceed to the next level
...if you wish to change careers without asking the GM about exceptions.

Meaning that you can't choose yourself to go straight from level 1 to level 3 (rule b), and you can't choose yourself to change to level 3 from an incomplete level 2 (rule a).

Also, this is the way careers have worked in both 1E and 2E, if that feels relevant to you. Even if it doesn't, it is likely the reason for the sloppy rules-writing here - the devs having no intention to change this fundamental building block of the WFRP careers system simply forgot to make that sufficiently clear to new players.

The same goes from jumping into new careers at a higher level than the first (=you need to talk to your GM).

The same goes for using Endeavours to change careers (=you need to talk to your GM). Page 196 specifically starts the main rules sentence for the Changing Careers endeavour with "Assuming you GM agrees..."

Hope that helps,
Zapp
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