New Careers?

Cubicle 7 // 2018
Jareth Valar
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:16 pm

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:51 pm

Knight of the Lady wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:28 am
If this career is intended to follow, somewhat, the romantic idea of the Highwayman, rather than that of them as greedy and violent brutes, maybe the term "Knight of the Road" could work?

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/knight+of+the+road

EDITED: Or maybe the careers can offer chances to either becomes a highly skilled robber on the road with few illusions about it, or a dashing and charming rouge living in freedom beyond the law?
That fits perfect. Also fits with the nomenclature (except Desperado really) as Road Agent was also another RL term for Highwaymen.

Thanks
FasterThanJesus
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:30 pm
Location: UK

Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:23 am

Jareth Valar wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:50 pm

.....That part didn't copy/paste. grr.
Close to what I had.
Begining: BS, I, Ag
Brass: Fel
Silver: T
Gold: WS

My thinking on Fel at Brass was that's when they start coming into the "idea" of Highwayman (career name, picking up Charm, etc), but that's part of the reason I posted it here.
Fair enough. I was also wondering where WS was most suitable but with the limitations of this structured approach, I think it's about right.

We just need a nice template to copy this into for print outs ;)
Knight of the Lady
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:04 am

Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:43 am

Jareth Valar wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:51 pm
Knight of the Lady wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:28 am
If this career is intended to follow, somewhat, the romantic idea of the Highwayman, rather than that of them as greedy and violent brutes, maybe the term "Knight of the Road" could work?

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/knight+of+the+road

EDITED: Or maybe the careers can offer chances to either becomes a highly skilled robber on the road with few illusions about it, or a dashing and charming rouge living in freedom beyond the law?
That fits perfect. Also fits with the nomenclature (except Desperado really) as Road Agent was also another RL term for Highwaymen.

Thanks
I am only happy to be able to help.
FasterThanJesus
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:30 pm
Location: UK

Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:46 am

Perhaps start off as Brigand* rather than Desperado? The horse would be a brass level trapping to move to highwayman.

* I don't have the rulebook in front of me, so don't know if that's already taken in v4.
Jareth Valar
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:16 pm

Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:07 am

FasterThanJesus wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:46 am
Perhaps start off as Brigand* rather than Desperado? The horse would be a brass level trapping to move to highwayman.

* I don't have the rulebook in front of me, so don't know if that's already taken in v4.
Brigand is level 1 Outlaw unfortunately.
Knight of the Lady
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:04 am

Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:18 am

Some other suggestions for the first part of the Highwayman Career may be; Footpad (may or may not work due to the fact that the character is supposed to get mounted, but may also work because the character supposedly is not yet mounted), Robber or Land Pirate.
Karanthir
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:30 am

Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:01 am

Knight of the Lady wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:06 pm
Orin J. wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:40 pm
Knight of the Lady wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:47 am


I may take you to literal here, but I don't really see the problem with a equipment-basis for a career as opposed to skill-basis. There are after all only so many Skills in the system. Hell, I wrote up several melee specialistions for my group in regards to the 40k RPG Only War and bases them around the use of a weapon, and they seems to have come out alright.
the issue is that the entire role of the career is "you have this item now for taking the career" which forces the GM into the awkward positon of having to play nice with that gear, since if they get it destroyed they've effectively wasted the point of taking it. to the player it's fine, but when you're planning an adventure you can find that having that issue on board becomes something of an albatross around the neck (it's very hard to explain how you're going to have bandits take their purses when they've been drugged but don't try to fence an elven sword worth far more, for example)
I think I see your points, and from what you write I agree that it sounds like a problem. But it may be that I have a narrow experience from dealing with my own group, but wouldn't it be possible to explain to the player that, yes, you start with this expensive and rare weapon but you can lose it just as easy as anyone else can theirs, and there's no free lunch to get it back again. So be smart and careful with how you use and show it?
There seems to have been a bit of a misunderstanding about 3rd edition careers here. 3rd was the first edition to get rid of the idea of needing to get the trappings for your next career before transitioning into, so careers are even less tied to equipment than they were in earlier editions. There were three careers (out of over 100) that came with a special equipment card: Dwarf Ironbreaker (Gromril Armour); High Elf Swordmaster (Greatsword of Hoeth); and Ogre Maneater (Gut Plate). These equipment cards replaced the career ability that all other careers got, making it a trade off (free very good equipment but at the cost of 1 less ability). In every other way (skills, talents etc.) these careers were the same as all others, so I disagree that "the entire role of the career" is having that item - may be a matter of interpretation though. Since these were starting careers (the Maneater had to be and the other two tended to be), there isn't too much of an issue with the GM having to be generous about allowing the players to have the equipment in the first place. It doesn't necessarily address the issue of the equipment getting stolen, but there are ways round that (as Knight of the Lady and totsuzenheni pointed out).

Anyway, the main point is that if all you want is a list of what careers are available in each edition, 3rd is comparable to the others (and there is a comprehensive list of 3rd edition careers if anyone is interested). The careers work a bit differently in some ways due to the mechanics of the edition, but not enough to prevent comparison of skills etc. and convert from one edition to another.
Knight of the Lady
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:04 am

Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:13 am

Karanthir wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:01 am
Anyway, the main point is that if all you want is a list of what careers are available in each edition, 3rd is comparable to the others (and there is a comprehensive list of 3rd edition careers if anyone is interested). The careers work a bit differently in some ways due to the mechanics of the edition, but not enough to prevent comparison of skills etc. and convert from one edition to another.
I'm interested.
Karanthir
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:30 am

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:35 am

Ok, it turns out it's not quite complete. Three careers from a POD supplement are missing (Grave Warden, Necromancer and Master Necromancer). It also doesn't have the skill lists for the careers. It should be fine for doing a basic comparison of career availability though. I have an actual comprehensive list, but it probably risks breaking copyright since it contains all the rules for the careers, so I'm wary of sharing it here.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YtL6M ... -ZQT_5e4xF

I also found this, which has suggestions for converting the 3rd edition careers to 4th edition:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uhI2z ... tLBjpmoINm
Knight of the Lady
Posts: 89
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Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:06 am

Thank you for sharing. :)
Karanthir
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:30 am

Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:32 am

No problem. I'm possibly the only 3rd edition fan on this forum, so I take the burden of promoting it!
FasterThanJesus
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:30 pm
Location: UK

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:40 am

Jareth Valar wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:22 am
Just a quick I threw together (finally had a chance to work on Warhammer). Please feel free to make suggestions/pick it apart. Trappings are missing, but I figure those are the easiest part really. Opening text is from 2nd Ed.

Highwayman
This won’t take long. Just hand over your jewelry. If you resist, it will all be over much quicker.
Highwaymen prey on the coaches that roam over the roads of the Old World, relieving lockboxes of their goods and passengers of their valuables. They affect the styles of the upper nobility, wearing elaborate masks and showing every point of etiquette to their victims, as they prefer to regard themselves as daring rogues rather than high-class Thieves. Highwaymen, by necessity, are skilled horsemen, adept at convincing their horses to race over uneven and treacherous ground at high speeds. They are also excellent shots, as they have to contend not only with swiftly moving targets, but a large number of dangerous forest denizens as well.

Highwayman Advance Scheme
WS BS S T I Ag Dex Wp Int Fel

Desperado (Brass 2)
Skills: Animal Care, Consume Alcohol, Gamble, Intimidate, Perception, Ranged (Crossbow), Ride (Horse), Stealth (Rural)
Talents: Coolheaded, Criminal, Flee!, Rover

Highwayman (Brass 4)
Skills: Bribery, Charm, Evaluate, Intuition, Outdoor Survival, Ranged (Blackpowder),
Talents: Crack the Whip, Marksman, Roughrider, Seasoned Taveler

Road Agent (Silver 1)
Skills: Animal Training (Horse), Charm Animal, Leadership, Melee (Fencing)
Talents: Combat Aware, Fast Shot, Gunner, Menacing

Knight of the Road (Silver 3)
Skills: Lore (Empire), Navigation
Talents: Accurate Shot, Fearless (Road Wardens), Sharpshooter, Very Resilient
Adding the fancy new table for the advance scheme!

Edit: Added even fancier ✠ symbol
Last edited by FasterThanJesus on Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
Capitaneus Fractus
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:41 am

Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:13 am

I feel it might be fancier with a cross patty character (✠) rather than with a plus character (+).
Veniam, Duelli Malleum, phantasticum ludum personae uidebo, in fera terra periculosorum aduenturorum ludebam.
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Orin J.
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:39 pm

Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:12 am

good work, but lore {empire} is awfully high on the list for what is essentially common knowledge. i'm also not so sure about "road agent" which sounds more to me like a tollkeeper, really. "road robber" maybe? flip that one with highwayman for titles.

you could maybe mark which skill is the "earning" skill for the class. i consider it a terrible idea, but someone might want to use that rule. being through never hurt.
FasterThanJesus
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:30 pm
Location: UK

Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:00 am

There has been debate on the names in the thread. "Road Agent" and "Knight of the Road" is a term that was used in the more romanticised notion of the Highwayman.

Also, I didn't update the other names when quoting Jareth's original to account for the follow-ups on the thread. Half a job, that's me.
Jareth Valar
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:16 pm

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:15 pm

FasterThanJesus wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:40 am
Jareth Valar wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:22 am
Just a quick I threw together (finally had a chance to work on Warhammer). Please feel free to make suggestions/pick it apart. Trappings are missing, but I figure those are the easiest part really. Opening text is from 2nd Ed.

Highwayman
This won’t take long. Just hand over your jewelry. If you resist, it will all be over much quicker.
Highwaymen prey on the coaches that roam over the roads of the Old World, relieving lockboxes of their goods and passengers of their valuables. They affect the styles of the upper nobility, wearing elaborate masks and showing every point of etiquette to their victims, as they prefer to regard themselves as daring rogues rather than high-class Thieves. Highwaymen, by necessity, are skilled horsemen, adept at convincing their horses to race over uneven and treacherous ground at high speeds. They are also excellent shots, as they have to contend not only with swiftly moving targets, but a large number of dangerous forest denizens as well.

Highwayman Advance Scheme
WS BS S T I Ag Dex Wp Int Fel

Desperado (Brass 2)
Skills: Animal Care, Consume Alcohol, Gamble, Intimidate, Perception, Ranged (Crossbow), Ride (Horse), Stealth (Rural)
Talents: Coolheaded, Criminal, Flee!, Rover

Highwayman (Brass 4)
Skills: Bribery, Charm, Evaluate, Intuition, Outdoor Survival, Ranged (Blackpowder),
Talents: Crack the Whip, Marksman, Roughrider, Seasoned Taveler

Road Agent (Silver 1)
Skills: Animal Training (Horse), Charm Animal, Leadership, Melee (Fencing)
Talents: Combat Aware, Fast Shot, Gunner, Menacing

Knight of the Road (Silver 3)
Skills: Lore (Empire), Navigation
Talents: Accurate Shot, Fearless (Road Wardens), Sharpshooter, Very Resilient
Adding the fancy new table for the advance scheme!

Edit: Added even fancier ✠ symbol
Looks nice. Was trying to do one myself, but you beat me to it.
Orin J. wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:12 am
good work, but lore {empire} is awfully high on the list for what is essentially common knowledge. i'm also not so sure about "road agent" which sounds more to me like a tollkeeper, really. "road robber" maybe? flip that one with highwayman for titles.

you could maybe mark which skill is the "earning" skill for the class. i consider it a terrible idea, but someone might want to use that rule. being through never hurt.
Lore (Empire) was taken straight off of the Roadwarden and the Outlaw (Level 4 Career skills). I also take it, that particular lore is far more encompassing that most since the majority of what the careers give is more local (Reikland, Wasteland, etc).

Though the Coachman gets Lore (Routes), would that be a better choice?

As for Road Agent, FasterThanJesus is correct. When I thought this up, Desperado and Master of the Road were off the top of my head. Highwayman and Road Agent, at least according to the interwebs, were proper terms. Knight f the Lady posted up the option of Knight of the Road, which I agree is more fitting with the career. A reference that I missed BTW...apparently my SearchFu needs work.

I completely agree that it sounds odd and am by no means tied to anything on this. That's why I posted it up for critique/modification. One of the thins I'm enjoying about 4E is the ability to do this without the headache of trying to balance the Advanced Scheme. Too many fan careers I've seen over the years for 1E and 2E were....not balanced for my particular table. ;) It's still possible to break a career build, but it seems you have to try I think.

As for 3E, only played that boardg...er...RPG a few times. Didn't really enjoy much about it. Really felt like a badly advertised boardgame trying to cash in on the RPG community. Don't get me wrong, I would have loved a Warhammer boardgame again (Warhammer Quest anyone!?) but I don't think the combination really worked for me or my group. For those that enjoyed, sweet. Glad you did/do.
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Orin J.
Posts: 188
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Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:50 pm

lore: routes would be a good skill for a highwayman to have....as for the names, i was mearly making a suggestion. that said, it's not like warhammer has ever had too great a love for keeping things in line with historical details, now has it?
FasterThanJesus
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:30 pm
Location: UK

Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:56 am

I've warmed a litle to Knight of the Road. In RL it was a bit of a subversion anyway, and Warhammer has a quirky take on both RL history and fantasy tropes.

If we want our highwaymen to fall into the more romanticised, magnificent bastard type, I think it fits. There are plenty enough of the gritter rogue types, and I think there's room for a more 'heroic' type. Heroic is relative and even in RL it looks a little like an effective propaganda campaign, so I think all is good.
Orin J. wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:12 am
you could maybe mark which skill is the "earning" skill for the class. i consider it a terrible idea, but someone might want to use that rule. being through never hurt.
Stealth (Rural) would be my take on that.
Jareth Valar
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:16 pm

Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:58 am

FasterThanJesus wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:56 am
I've warmed a litle to Knight of the Road. In RL it was a bit of a subversion anyway, and Warhammer has a quirky take on both RL history and fantasy tropes.

If we want our highwaymen to fall into the more romanticised, magnificent bastard type, I think it fits. There are plenty enough of the gritter rogue types, and I think there's room for a more 'heroic' type. Heroic is relative and even in RL it looks a little like an effective propaganda campaign, so I think all is good.
Orin J. wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:12 am
you could maybe mark which skill is the "earning" skill for the class. i consider it a terrible idea, but someone might want to use that rule. being through never hurt.
Stealth (Rural) would be my take on that.
I originally had Intimidation as the "earning" skill, but you are probably correct, Stealth (Rural) is probably better.
Capitaneus Fractus
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:41 am

Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:29 am

I've started a compared index of careers. If anyone is willing to help completing it or correcting it, just ask me.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... SG1wTa_lys
Veniam, Duelli Malleum, phantasticum ludum personae uidebo, in fera terra periculosorum aduenturorum ludebam.
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