Reloading

The enemy lurks in shadows
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Cardboardant
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:37 am

I am uncertain how reloading is meant to work.

I know it is an Extended Test and you reach a certain amount of SL equal to the Reload number.

Is this test an action? Or free?

The Rapid Reload/Gunner talent can add SL to the reload test and can effectively reduce Reload to 0. I assume you still roll to see if you roll 95+ (and auto fail)?

Essentially, if the test is free and you have the Gunner talent, can you fire a pistol every turn?

Cheers
HappyDaze
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:59 am

I do not believe that the test is free. It takes time and effort to reload guns and crossbows in Warhammer.
adambeyoncelowe
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:54 pm

Yeah, it uses your Action. So you can't shoot and Reload in the same turn unless you use Talents.

I'm lenient and allow a stationary character to attempt a Reload if they don't take a Move that round, in addition to taking their regular Action.
Cardboardant
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:37 am

adambeyoncelowe wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:19 am
Yeah, it uses your Action. So you can't shoot and Reload in the same turn unless you use Talents.

I'm lenient and allow a stationary character to attempt a Reload if they don't take a Move that round, in addition to taking their regular Action.
Thanks for the responses; the rulebook (as in a lot of instances) us as clear as mud.

If it takes an action, what Talents would allow you to reload and shoot in the same turn? The talents like Gunner and Rapid Reload just add SL to the test...
adambeyoncelowe
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:54 pm

Cardboardant wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:32 am
adambeyoncelowe wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:19 am
Yeah, it uses your Action. So you can't shoot and Reload in the same turn unless you use Talents.

I'm lenient and allow a stationary character to attempt a Reload if they don't take a Move that round, in addition to taking their regular Action.
Thanks for the responses; the rulebook (as in a lot of instances) us as clear as mud.

If it takes an action, what Talents would allow you to reload and shoot in the same turn? The talents like Gunner and Rapid Reload just add SL to the test...
I couldn't remember off the top of my head so checked, and I don't think there are any (yet). It would have to be a custom Talent. But I would allow a custom Talent that allows you to make a Reload Test for your Move.

Ask your GM what they think. Melee characters get a lot of free attack Talents, so it wouldn't be too OP to give Ranged PCs an extra Reload Test instead.

The Furious Assault model works: if you succeed on your attack, you can spend +1 Advantage or use your Move to follow this up with an immediate Reload Test. Call it Furious Shot or something.
HappyDaze
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:59 am

Ranged is already pretty strong in 4e. Using a gun or crossbow gives a hard-hitting option that is not subject to defense unless the opponent has a shield, so I wouldn't want to see an option that allows reload & fire on the same turn. But that's just my view. Do as you will.
Cardboardant
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:37 am

My player has a pistol and they are pretty powerful; I agree to the Reload taking an action - considering, historically, a pistol was fired and done (hence carrying a brace, and then pistol-whipping being a thing).
adambeyoncelowe
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:54 pm

In my opinion, while Ranged weapons can be good, there are enough balancing factors already in place (e.g., Unopposed Tests, failure ending the Test even if it would be Opposed, you can't Move and shoot without penalty in the same turn, you can usually only gain +1 Advantage per Round).

Melee combatants, meanwhile, get access to some really deadly multiple attack options (Dual Wielder, Furious Assault, Reaction Strike, Riposte, Frenzy) and can build up +2 (or more) Advantage per Round.

But, as always, I guess it depends on your table and how often you guys use Ranged weapons. And we rarely use Blackpowder weapons, so that may be skewing our experiences (as they have some special considerations bows, etc, that other Ranged weapons don't, due to the Broken Condition).

The other option, to stick with RAW, is to only use weapons with the Repeater Quality. Then you don't have to worry so much about the Reload Quality.
SigmariteOrWrong
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:55 am

I think black powder weapons fire too fast already, with an relatively experienced gunner firing every 3 rounds anyway, at career rank 2, and every 2 rounds at higher levels of proficiency.
If you are relatively inexperienced, or have a low BS, you just shouldn't touch black powder weapons, the risk of fumbling them is too high.

Pile this on top of the Blackpowder breaking weaker willed enemies like Skaven, and they are very powerful indeed. With a couple pistols in a group its easy to see off a bunch of Skaven fairly quickly.
adambeyoncelowe
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:54 pm

I don't see shooting once every 2-3 turns as particularly powerful, especially as you have to reload in between and, at our table, combats rarely last beyond 2 rounds anyway. But again, YMMV.
HappyDaze
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:59 am

adambeyoncelowe wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:21 am
I don't see shooting once every 2-3 turns as particularly powerful, especially as you have to reload in between and, at our table, combats rarely last beyond 2 rounds anyway. But again, YMMV.
In such cases, a second weapon might be the idea solution.

Note that it isn't uncommon for it to take 2-3 rounds for a wizard to get off their best spells too (whether from accumulating Advantage or by Channeling).
adambeyoncelowe
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:54 pm

HappyDaze wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:27 am
adambeyoncelowe wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:21 am
I don't see shooting once every 2-3 turns as particularly powerful, especially as you have to reload in between and, at our table, combats rarely last beyond 2 rounds anyway. But again, YMMV.
In such cases, a second weapon might be the idea solution.

Note that it isn't uncommon for it to take 2-3 rounds for a wizard to get off their best spells too (whether from accumulating Advantage or by Channeling).
Wizards can spam Dart quite successfully, and you can't reload if you have a weapon in your second hand. At our table, PCs tend fire their gun, holster it, and then draw and use Melee Weapons because they don't want to waste turns reloading.

The best way to play a Wizard is to ignore Channelling altogether and focus on Instinctive Diction, Pitch Perfect, Language (Magick) and Advantage accumulation from Dart.

In my experience, anything that takes more than one turn to activate is a wasted turn. Even with strong NPC opponents, our combats rarely last more than 3 rounds, as I say.
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