Winds of Chaos

I had a test run with my group for WFRP 4th and the SL combat system did not work as it required too much effort to track.

So I crafted a simpler system where I changed SL to something called "Momentum" (you have it or you don't) and had the to hit rolls be affected by the opponents skill. Also I tried to minimize the amount of time spent looking things up. Here are the main changes:

Basics:

1) Melee:
a. Roll equal/under WS to hit.
b. WS of the attacker is modified by the difference between the attackers WS and the defenders WS or AG (eg with an attacker with 35WS and a defender with 30WS gives the attacker +5WS and the attacker needs to roll a 40 or less to hit).
c. Targeting a limb gives a -10WS penalty, for the head the penalty is -20WS.

2) Ranged:
a. Roll equal/under BS to hit.
b. BS is modified by the defenders AG as with 1b.
c. Targeting a limb gives a -20BS penalty, for the head the penalty is -40BS.

3) Damage: The to-hit roll 10’s number plus the weapons damage (eg 54 to-hit with a hand weapon = 5 extra damage + SB + 4).

Advanced:

1) Momentum: Having momentum gives +10 to all characteristics. Momentum is gained by:
i. Having the highest initiative of all combatants when combat starts.
ii. By initiating combat through surprise.
iii. Charging.
iv. Wounding an opponent.
- Momentum is lost by:
i. Failing a skill/characteristic test.
ii. Receiving a wound(s).
iii. Combat ending.

2) Outnumbering in Melee:
a. For every extra attacker; all outnumbering combatants receive a +10 Bonus to WS (eg. 3 to 1 = +20WS to the outnumbering combatants).


My group enjoyed these changes, it added the incentive to get creative when dealing with highly skilled opponents. Interested what you guys think.

So at lot has already been said and written about the SL and advantage systems in 4th ed (and I totally understand why you find it frustrating to keep track of things - that was my main reason for never switching fully to 4th ed). But here are some specific comments to the changes you are doing:

1) A lot of the talents in 4th are dependent on keeping track of advantage. If you replace this with what you suggested you will need to find ways to handle those talents. Many of them risk becomming completely useless.

2) The rules you are proposing makes it an advantage to not oppose an opponent if your skill is lower than theirs. This is going to lead to some funky stuff when people with much higher skill is facing of those with lower skill.

3) Ranged weapons to going to be super deadly particularly with people with high skill / low opposed agility. Essentially they cant miss once their BS gets over 60 and their opponents have a regular Ag around 30.

I would propose that you either lean into it and embrace 4th ed as-is or chose one of the other editions (1st or 2nd) and import the stuff you find interresting from 4th ed. I think you will find that much more rewarding than trying to alter the core mechanics in 4th ed.

makrellen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:11 am So at lot has already been said and written about the SL and advantage systems in 4th ed (and I totally understand why you find it frustrating to keep track of things - that was my main reason for never switching fully to 4th ed). But here are some specific comments to the changes you are doing:

1) A lot of the talents in 4th are dependent on keeping track of advantage. If you replace this with what you suggested you will need to find ways to handle those talents. Many of them risk becomming completely useless.

2) The rules you are proposing makes it an advantage to not oppose an opponent if your skill is lower than theirs. This is going to lead to some funky stuff when people with much higher skill is facing of those with lower skill.

3) Ranged weapons to going to be super deadly particularly with people with high skill / low opposed agility. Essentially they cant miss once their BS gets over 60 and their opponents have a regular Ag around 30.

I would propose that you either lean into it and embrace 4th ed as-is or chose one of the other editions (1st or 2nd) and import the stuff you find interresting from 4th ed. I think you will find that much more rewarding than trying to alter the core mechanics in 4th ed.

I should mention that I have changed more than what I posted, that is just the basics.

1) From what I see the only talent that really requires tracking of SL is Reversal. For the rest; some can stay the way they are (Disarm and Feint for example) and for others I replace SL with "Momentum" or +X0% for a round. With Reversal I would allow a player to take a different Talent in its place.

2) I don't follow what you mean, could you give an example? Is it not logical that you prefer to avoid combat with a superior opponent? There are no opposing rolls, only the attacker rolls (like 2nd ed).

3) Well a few things here,
a) Firstly I don't count the skill in a weapon only the raw BS/WS. Having 60BS as a human would make you an extraordinarily talented 4th tier archer, in which case I think you should be able to easily pick off that unsuspecting farmer.
b) Shields in my campaign add a difficulty versus melee and ranged attacks (replacing the Shield & Defensive qualities), Buckler = -10%, Shield = -20% & Large Shields = -30% (unless shooting in the back).
c) A moving target is another -20%, a target in melee counts as a moving target.

Okay - I think you should just go ahead and try it out. If it fits your style of play then great!

To me this sounds like 1st ed just with a modified to-hit roll instead of opposed rolls. And that makes a lot of sense honestly. So I would definitely like to hear more about how it goes. Keep us updated